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Long tenon overrated?

neck tenon Les Paul

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#1 jackhicks

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:01 PM

When you look at the back of a solid body 157 and get a visual image of where the neck actually ends, it's really deep. Is an extra inch of a long neck tenon really a big deal? It's pretty clever of Gibson to convince the world that a long tenon is worth a lot more money!
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#2 Klatu

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 01:22 PM

In itself, it doesn't make a difference to the tone or playability, but it does add to the mystique of certain high end guitars. Some companies add it as a way to differentiate their products while others use it to set their "custom" range apart from their "standard" range.
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#3 rockabilly69

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:42 PM

If a long tenon was that important, Firebirds with their neck through design would be the best guitar ever!
What really is more important to me is a solid glue joint! I bought my H150 under the pretense that it was
a long tenon, but found out when I got it, that it wasn't, which upset me. But when I started playing it, (after
doing some bridge work), I found I liked it as much as my R0 historic Gibson Les Paul. Once again I think
it comes down to all guitars are a sum of their parts, and if you can't buy one in person, you better find a
deal with a liberal return policy:)
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I love my H150's

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#4 bolero

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:00 PM

I have both, I don't think it really matters

although the reason Gibson started offering it, was vintage collectors pointing out the historic's weren't constructed accurately to the real deal

of course, they used that to charge $ for those and other accurate features...which they deliberately rolled out over years of production. smart marketing
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#5 HANGAR18

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 03:56 PM

On a Les Paul design it doesn't really matter but it matters a lot more on certain hollow bodies.
I don't recall which model number of hollow bodies because that's not really my thing.
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#6 Kuz

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:31 PM

Remember Heritage uses long tenons now, so the argument is really over.
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#7 yoslate

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:01 AM

In itself, it doesn't make a difference to the tone or playability, but it does add to the mystique of certain high end guitars.


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#8 bolero

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:53 AM

ask the aliens, maybe they can tell the difference?


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#9 blackthorn

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:42 AM

Do you know when Heritage started to use long tenon necks?
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#10 Kuz

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:23 AM

Do you know when Heritage started to use long tenon necks?


Around 2-2.5 years ago.
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#11 HANGAR18

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:00 AM

"gort klaatu barada nikto"

LOL!! :laughing4:
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#12 NoNameBand

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:28 AM

I have both, I don't think it really matters

although the reason Gibson started offering it, was vintage collectors pointing out the historic's weren't constructed accurately to the real deal

of course, they used that to charge $ for those and other accurate features...which they deliberately rolled out over years of production. smart marketing

The real deal is Heritage and that's what the collectors wanted to get back to ('59-'60). Building them by hand is what is the shortcut that Gibson takes and can't talk about, unless you go to the Custom Shop and there is a price jump. So they have to make something sound so good for a mass produced guitar.
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#13 High Flying Bird

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:46 PM

If a long tenon was that important, Firebirds with their neck through design would be the best guitar ever!


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#14 davesultra

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:06 PM

"Ahhh.. long tennon, schlong tennon"! :booty: As long as it plays & sounds good...don't make no nevermind to me.! :icon_biggrin:

Edited by davesultra, 20 November 2012 - 04:06 PM.

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#15 Blunote

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:08 PM

The real deal is Heritage and that's what the collectors wanted to get back to ('59-'60). Building them by hand is what is the shortcut that Gibson takes and can't talk about, unless you go to the Custom Shop and there is a price jump. So they have to make something sound so good for a mass produced guitar.


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Hope all has been well.
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#16 brentrocks

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:27 PM

Ren Wall says it doesnt matter....thats good enough for me
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#17 bolero

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:10 PM

The real deal is Heritage and that's what the collectors wanted to get back to ('59-'60). Building them by hand is what is the shortcut that Gibson takes and can't talk about, unless you go to the Custom Shop and there is a price jump. So they have to make something sound so good for a mass produced guitar.


well, by "real deal" I meant the actual '59 LP's the historics are supposed to emulate.

the tenon was the only major construction detail from back-in-the-day, that Heritage hadn't bothered to use until recently. I think it was a good decision; a lot of guitar players seem to think it's important enough

on a larger scale, I would agree that Heritage guitars are "the real deal" :D
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#18 soybean

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:37 AM

On a Les Paul design it doesn't really matter but it matters a lot more on certain hollow bodies.

I agree. I once played a Gibson es-335 historic (custom shop) with long tenon. It definitely sounded better and had more of the vintage sound like the early '60s 335s. The vast majority of Gibson 335s do not have the long tenon… even the custom shop ones. What about Heritage 535/555?

The Firebird is actually "neck-through", not a long tenon but I get the joke.

Edited by soybean, 21 November 2012 - 03:38 AM.

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#19 Kuz

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 07:57 AM

I agree. I once played a Gibson es-335 historic (custom shop) with long tenon. It definitely sounded better and had more of the vintage sound like the early '60s 335s. The vast majority of Gibson 335s do not have the long tenon… even the custom shop ones. What about Heritage 535/555?

The Firebird is actually "neck-through", not a long tenon but I get the joke.


A few posts above.....

"Remember Heritage uses long tenons now, so the argument is really over."

YES
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#20 Kuz

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:05 AM

This long tenon stuff has been discussed more here over the years than any other topic next to the headstock.

I will quote Terry McInturff (master Luthier) once again.... "The length of the tenon doesn't matter as long as the contact point of the neck and body is a complete joint that is strong as possible to maximize vibrations from the neck to the body".

In other words, the length of the tenon doesn't matter as long as the contact joint is complete and secure as possible.

All my Heritage guitars are the "shorter" Heritage tenon (note I did not say the short Gibson tenon like on Gibson production models, their is a difference the Heritage "shorter" tenon is the "transition length tenon" which is longer than the Gibby production model tenon.. for whatever that matters) and they slay any long tenon guitar I have ever played. I am sure I could not tell the difference between my "shorter" Heritage tenon to the new "long" Heritage in a tone challenge.

AND for what it is worth, what guitar company uses the longest tenons..... PRS!!!!

Edited by Kuz, 21 November 2012 - 08:08 AM.

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