Rod Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I'm thinking about changing pickups on my Millennium Pro from the Seymour Duncan 59's it came with. I'm probably unable to articulate just exactly what I'd consider improvement. I read all the same stuff everybody else does, more of this, less of that. I listen to the sound clips. I can't really tell much difference. No point in telling me it's more about the player. I know that there is no pickup that's a substitute for talent. I'm still undeterred! I can detect differences... sometimes. Maybe even detect something "special", but probably can't articulate it. My hearing is only ordinary, and my mastery of language is probably inadequate to describe the audible details I am able to discern. Sometimes I have to play something for a while before the differences are even detectable to me. In other words, it's going to have to sound a lot better for me to be able to tell it, but I want to give it a shot anyway. I have the Millie with '59's, a 157 with Seth Lovers, and a 150 with HRW's. My favorite "tone" is the 157 with the Seths. The Millie Pro would be my favorite guitar, but it lacks... something... that the Seth's have. Honestly, part of it may be that I tend to think (with no real basis) that whatever came stock in the Millie could be improved upon just because it's stock, and that somehow with no improvement in my playing ability I'll sound "better" with a new whiz-bang pickup. The obvious thing would seem to be to put Seths in the Millennium, but I've already got a guitar with that tone. I know that there'd be some difference between the Millie and the 157 because of construction, but I'm thinking it would be insignificant. I think I want something different for the Millie. My only preconceived idea is that there should be something quite extraordinary among the Seymour Duncan PAF's. I'm intrigued by the Pearly Gates. I'm not at all opposed to Throbaks or Bare Knuckles, but I don't want to throw another couple hundred bucks at them for no reason. I play "at" blues, country, southern rock. I'm sure that most of y'all are better players than me, and more discerning of tone. I'll rely a lot on your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanschoyck Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I have two guitars with Pearly Gates bridge pups. They give good squonk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stringman Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Rod: I'm no tone expert, but I do have some opinions on pickups. SD '59's are some of my favorite pickups when paired together. I like them for the versatility I get with them combined. I have them in my H-576 and without a doubt, that is my most versatile two pickup humbucker equiped guitar. I once had a guitar custom made (A G&L ASAT Deluxe) with a SD 59 in the neck and a SD Custom Custom in the bridge and loved that combination a lot, too. The SD CC is a bit hotter than a '59 to my ears. I like Gibson '57's very much, too. Both my 335 and 336 have '57's in them and I never have considered swapping them out for anything else. I'd like the bridge pickup to be a little hotter, though. The SD JB is NOT my favorite bridge pickup and always stay away from that choice. I'm thinking a '57 in the neck and a CC in the bridge would be killer. I am not a huge fan of Gibson Burstbucker pickups. I find them a bit muddy and unexciting. Had a LP with these and no longer have the LP. They just kind of laid there. Just my 2 cents. Not sure if this helps, but those are some that I've tried and liked or not. Good luck with your hunt. Sounds like you should just go ahead and put the pickups you like in the Millie. It will sound different than your other guitar. Take care. Stringman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I dont know anymore. I think the guitar is what it is to an extent. I sometimes think it would be a shame to only enjoy a guitar because of the p/ups that were in it. The flip side would be to not enjoy a guitar because of the pick ups that were in it. I went through a flurry of p/up swaps a couple of weeks ago and now I have to put everything back to how it was because I miss what the last p/ups had. Im not enjoying the guitar so much. I could probably get back what I lost at the amp or by adjusting the pole pieces and over all height. Thats my distraction tonight. Tinkering with pick up heights. Thats what my Saturday nights have come to. Adjusting p/up heights. Inane and purposeless activity to meet an end that doesnt really matter. Im gonna do it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Favorite humbucker? That's like asking what's your favorite food at Taco Bell. Hmm. If I had to eat the same thing every time it would be the Taco Salad I guess, I mean a vintage PAF. Seth Lovers, 57s, 59s, and other low winds. But I do agree with JeffB. The pup is but a piece of the whole enchilada. At least half of the tone comes from the player. I'm a big fan of Fralin P92s, although that's probably not what you're getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzy Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I think you have laid out the tone chase conundrum of many guitar players. My thoughts are: be patient; be critical of glowing pickup du jour reviews; also know that a marginal improvement is a realistic expectation and acceptable. That "something" you are looking for may be elusive and fleeting. Listen to what you want this guitar to do through your amp. Listen for something from the guitar that can be / should be emphasized or subdued. Listen to the subtle changes from easy tweaks. Can you get closer by: technique string gauge action pickup / pole piece height volume or tone knob twisting Those last two bullet points may be particularly insightful. Knowing what gets you closer should help you to choose winds and magnets. Best of all, even if you choose to not to swap pups, you will get closer to your instrument. Then again, some of my friends think I'm full of s#'t, but that is subjective - just like opinions on pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beagle216 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Two words: SHED PAF Daddies Wait... That was three. Either way they are incredible. Perfect for blues and classic rock. Probably country too but don't play it so couldn't tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I think you have laid out the tone chase conundrum of many guitar players. My thoughts are: be patient; be critical of glowing pickup du jour reviews; also know that a marginal improvement is a realistic expectation and acceptable. That "something" you are looking for may be elusive and fleeting. Listen to what you want this guitar to do through your amp. Listen for something from the guitar that can be / should be emphasized or subdued. Listen to the subtle changes from easy tweaks. Can you get closer by: technique string gauge action pickup / pole piece height volume or tone knob twisting Those last two bullet points may be particularly insightful. Knowing what gets you closer should help you to choose winds and magnets. Best of all, even if you choose to not to swap pups, you will get closer to your instrument. Then again, some of my friends think I'm full of s#'t, but that is subjective - just like opinions on pickups. I couldn't agree more. Here's a shot of George Benson playing my guitar that has Rotosound strings and Lollartron pups, neither of which are close to his usual. And he's playing a Heritage. But how does he sound? Like George Benson, at least that's what they told me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 MartyGrass............ who are you? Im sitting here listening to George Benson trying to absorb something of it while adjusting p/up pole piece height and you post, "heres George Benson playing my guitar" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 This is great discussion! As I read the responses and think about how I phrased the original question, I should have added that it's just fun to mess around with this stuff. Playing the guitar is a challenging and satisfying pastime for me. I'm not making a living at it, or trying to impress anyone. Chasing tone is just an enjoyable extension of this pastime. I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of Pearly Gates when I decided to throw out the question here. I'll learn something from this. Thanks for all the opinions and information. Hopefully this discussion will simmer for a week or two and I'll make a more informed decision. Keep those ideas and opinions coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 I couldn't agree more. Here's a shot of George Benson playing my guitar that has Rotosound strings and Lollartron pups, neither of which are close to his usual. And he's playing a Heritage. But how does he sound? Like George Benson, at least that's what they told me. Unfortunately, when this quest has reached some sort of (at least temporary) conclusion, I'll still sound like me. Really great tools are a pursuit unto themselves, even if they're a bit wasted within my mediocre talent. I figure I have about as much fun with them as someone a lot more talented. I can buy the toys. The rest of it is a lot harder to come by. BTW, was that picture taken at your house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Well, I agree not anyone pup is perfect for every guitar..... BUT if you use the same pickups in every solid body then you know one variable is consistent, the pickups. So if the guitar sounds dramatically different then another guitar with the same pups you know the difference is in the wood. But if you order different guitars with different pups you will always be second guessing what the differences between the guitars. I use Throback pups in all my humbucker guitars except for my two PRS guitars. I know the character of each guitar and in which situation/genre they will sound best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 This is great discussion! As I read the responses and think about how I phrased the original question, I should have added that it's just fun to mess around with this stuff. Playing the guitar is a challenging and satisfying pastime for me. I'm not making a living at it, or trying to impress anyone. Chasing tone is just an enjoyable extension of this pastime. I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of Pearly Gates when I decided to throw out the question here. I'll learn something from this. Thanks for all the opinions and information. Hopefully this discussion will simmer for a week or two and I'll make a more informed decision. Keep those ideas and opinions coming! Sorry Didnt mean to come across all negative. I was just making fun of myself. Im a walking contradiction. I dont think any of it matters. You get a good guitar, you get a good amp and you practice and play until you sound the way you want. Thats why I have lost many hours swapping and trying p/ups, pots, nuts, trem blocks, saddles, strings, tail pieces, speakers, cabs, tubes and doing mods to my amps. If I stop practicing/playing long enough and just go from guitar to guitar noodling as I go, a alteration to one of the guitars isnt far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Sorry Didnt mean to come across all negative. I was just making fun of myself. Im a walking contradiction. I dont think any of it matters. You get a good guitar, you get a good amp and you practice and play until you sound the way you want. Thats why I have lost many hours swapping and trying p/ups, pots, nuts, trem blocks, saddles, strings, tail pieces, speakers, cabs, tubes and doing mods to my amps. If I stop practicing/playing long enough and just go from guitar to guitar noodling as I go, a alteration to one of the guitars isnt far away. I didn't take it a negative at all! We're on the same page. It's all part of the discussion. I appreciate your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Well, I agree not anyone pup is perfect for every guitar..... BUT if you use the same pickups in every solid body then you know one variable is consistent, the pickups. So if the guitar sounds dramatically different then another guitar with the same pups you know the difference is in the wood. But if you order different guitars with different pups you will always be second guessing what the differences between the guitars. I use Throback pups in all my humbucker guitars except for my two PRS guitars. I know the character of each guitar and in which situation/genre they will sound best. From everything I've read, Throbacks are at the top of the food chain. They may be there with a dozen others, and the "best" among those a never-ending debate, but they're there. So, now that you've got them in everything, is the search over? Are you no longer assaulted by the curiosity that leaves many of us always wondering if something "different" would be "better"? I'll admit that I'm at least mildly compelled to get the Throwbacks at $500+ and by spending what I consider a lot of money on them, the side of my brain that concerns itself with money will tell the side that's in charge of guitar playing that I've found the Holy Grail, and I can quite throwing money at this frivolous pursuit of tone. It's really hard for me to take money out of the equation in a quest of (even an elusive) quality. It's hard to get around the "If it costs more it's bound to be better" thought process. Also, I know that Throwbacks are wound on the old winder from Gibson's Kalamazoo days that was recovered from a back room on Parson's Street and brought back to life. That's good mojo, but how much am I paying for mojo, and how much for tone. I'm fine with paying for mojo, btw. At least the guitar playing part of my brain is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 From everything I've read, Throbacks are at the top of the food chain. They may be there with a dozen others, and the "best" among those a never-ending debate, but they're there. So, now that you've got them in everything, is the search over? Are you no longer assaulted by the curiosity that leaves many of us always wondering if something "different" would be "better"? I'll admit that I'm at least mildly compelled to get the Throwbacks at $500+ and by spending what I consider a lot of money on them, the side of my brain that concerns itself with money will tell the side that's in charge of guitar playing that I've found the Holy Grail, and I can quite throwing money at this frivolous pursuit of tone. It's really hard for me to take money out of the equation in a quest of (even an elusive) quality. It's hard to get around the "If it costs more it's bound to be better" thought process. Also, I know that Throwbacks are wound on the old winder from Gibson's Kalamazoo days that was recovered from a back room on Parson's Street and brought back to life. That's good mojo, but how much am I paying for mojo, and how much for tone. I'm fine with paying for mojo, btw. At least the guitar playing part of my brain is. -Yes, my search is over for pups. I have his Throbak SEL101 PLUS in my Yoder 150, and PG 102s in two semi-hollows, the others have SLE101s -I have tried many different pups from Seth Lovers, Wolf Tone, Peter Florance, ect... and none of these have the combination or open airiness but warm & sweet (to my ears). I have tried to love less expensive pups but to my ears an extra $100-200 is worth it on $2,000 plus guitars -Finally cost: Jon at Throbak offers HOC members a 20% discount so our cost is around $415 shipped to you door. Now you can always sell them on Ebay or The Gear Page and not lose money. So depending on what pickups you have in your guitar you can sell them for $100-225. So really net out of your pocket is $200-300 for true PAF sweetness These are my thoughts anyhow, I have yet to hear from ANYONE that has played a set of Thorbaks that doesn't think they sound incredible. I won't say the best because I have not tried every manufacture, but like you said they are on the top of the mountain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 -Yes, my search is over for pups. I have his Throbak SEL101 PLUS in my Yoder 150, and PG 102s in two semi-hollows, the others have SLE101s -I have tried many different pups from Seth Lovers, Wolf Tone, Peter Florance, ect... and none of these have the combination or open airiness but warm & sweet (to my ears). I have tried to love less expensive pups but to my ears an extra $100-200 is worth it on $2,000 plus guitars -Finally cost: Jon at Throbak offers HOC members a 20% discount so our cost is around $415 shipped to you door. Now you can always sell them on Ebay or The Gear Page and not lose money. So depending on what pickups you have in your guitar you can sell them for $100-225. So really net out of your pocket is $200-300 for true PAF sweetness These are my thoughts anyhow, I have yet to hear from ANYONE that has played a set of Thorbaks that doesn't think they sound incredible. I won't say the best because I have not tried every manufacture, but like you said they are on the top of the mountain. That's pretty strong, Kuz. And a 20% discount I knew nothing about! I didn't expect to be deciding this quickly into the discussion. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarusvt84 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Twice this past year I almost threw in the towel on separate guitars and found that pup and pole height adjustment combinations made ALL THE DIFFERENCE! Just a few days ago, I was shopping for new pups thoroughly disappointed at the deadness of my low E string. I kept experimenting with just the pup height to no avail, then came across an informative article on this subject. http://pickroar.com/978/brighten-a-les-paul-part-iii-pickup-tweaks/ I believe tone woods and fret board also can make/break the sound quality...and I'm sure there are subtle differences in pup makes which appeal to individual and discriminating aural pallets (not me), but before someone gives up on a pup set...simply make some adjustments first...then decide on whether to swap. I fact, I've probably sold a few American-made guitars in ignorance that could have worked had I had this information. I even sold off a set of 57 Classics (swapped them for a set of SD's) a few years ago...and now find that they sound fantastic on my son's identical guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSnowBlower Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Love for Thro-bak. Must have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Love for Thro-bak. Must have Jeez, Pete.... You will go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Throbak Sle-101 plus. The proof is in the tone!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydog52 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I am a big fan of Seth Lovers. Still use them but I think the Thro-Baks are No. 1 now. Followed closely by Bare Knuckle Mules being a close second. WCR makes some nice one too. So many to choose from. It's an endless argument. You just have to go with what your ears tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtpatty Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I am firmly in the Bare Knuckle camp on this- I particularly like the Emerald, VHII's, and Riff Raff's.... If I were to go more mainstream, I like Dimarzio's, Bluesbucker's and SD/PAF Pro...and if I wanted to spend some serious jack, I would go for a set of Kloppmann's..http://www.kloppmann-electrics.de/en/pickups/hb/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesultra Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I know I'm going to be in the minority here but, I have always been fond of the ol' Duncan '59. I know they're considered to be rather vanilla by most, but I like 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yooper Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I have always been fond of the ol' Duncan '59. I had '57 classics for so long, they became the LP tone I embraced. The '59s were an acquired taste for me, but they fill a niche I needed filling. P-90s covered the spread as well. Has anyone done, or know where I can hear, an A/B of Seths and Throbaks? I'd settle for some subjective opinions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.