Jump to content
Heritage Owners Club

Fine tuning tailpiece


paulg510

Recommended Posts

Hi, I'm a newly registered member of HOC...that is, I'm awaiting delivery of a H/Johnny Smith I ordered from Elderly Instruments. (be still, my heart!).  I'm not familiar with the "fine-tuning tailpiece" on this model, though.  As it's a pre-owned guitar, I'm not expecting any included description or instructions for this tailpiece.  The folks at Elderly seem to think it somehow lets you micro-tune the strings finer than the tuning keys (??).  This doesn't sound right to me.  So, can anyone out there shed some light on what I'm to do with this tailpiece?  Does it adjust individual string tension?  I'm soooo confused! ???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Elderly folks are correct: the fine-tune tailpiece allows you to adjust the tuning of each string in very small increments.  I have this kind of tailpiece on a couple of my guitars and I like it very much.  These were introduced by Gibson in the late 70s on stop tailpieces (the TP6).  Some people don't like those because they think they cut down on sustain.  The fine-tune device was also introduced by Gibson on archtops, and that sounds like the kind you have, though it is likely manufacturd by Schaller. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basically the ratio of turns to a change in pitch is much greater for fine tuners than head tuners. 

 

Back out the fine tuners all the way. You will be able to feel when they no longer are applying tension.

 

Coarse tune strings to just flat of the desired note using the head tuners.  I typically align all these so they are in-line and look neat.

 

Now screw in the fine tuners till you reach the exact pitch.

 

Use the fine tuners, the majority of the time.  This will save wear on the head tuners.

 

My two cents

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right--fine tuners have nothing to do with setting the intonation of the neck.  They are simply a way of fine tuning the instrument.  This device is borrowed from the violin world, where musicians often have fine tuners at the tailpiece to adjust tuning for individual strings.  Its use there stems from the fact that the tuning pegs on a violin, viola, cello, or double bass are tension pegs, not machine heads.  They are thus a little tougher to adjust when tuning (though many players do ok without any additional help or devices), so the fine tuners help with getting the instrument completely in tune. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Intonation is set by the insets of the bridge, which attempts to change the length of the open string to match the harmonics of the fretted string.

 

I actually never use the harmonic at the 12th fret to intonate my guitars, though this is the way guitar techs commonly do it.  I set the intonation completely by ear and intonate each string up through the 19th fret using fifths, thirds, and octaves.  I have done it this way for years, but it's a little like piano tuning in that you have to really know what you're listening for as you make adjustments.  The guitars play completely in tune all over the neck, with any irregularities distributed across the entire range of the instrument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congrats on the Johnny!

I have one in sunburst.

This is IMHO the finest guitar Heritage has ever made (and the Johnnys made by all the other guitar companys are their best also).

When you get it play it in a quiet room all by yourself and just feel the grace and beauty of the accustic sound.

Let this sound sink in before plugging in, you may never want to go electric.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great info here on the TP-6 and other fine tuners, and no disrespect intended, but I think that the "finger" tailpiece that Paulg510 has on his Johny Smith has a different purpose.  ...and Paul, I think you are right, and the Elderly folks are wrong this time.  The finger tailpiece, as you thought, is designed to allow individual adjustment of the break angle of each string, and therefore the tension (at pitch, as discussed in our threads about cranking down stop tailpieces.)  It is not designed to be adjusted at pitch, like the TP-6.  I double checked the Gibson site's description of this tailpiece, which they use on the Howard Roberts, and they describe it as allowing individual adjustment of string angle. 

 

Even the huge tailpieces on L-5's and Super 400's had a "tension adjustment," which raised or lowered the string-attachment end of the tailpiece.  I've never seen a Heritage trapeze with a similar adjustment.  My 2 cents. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aha--so it's not a fine-tune tailpiece after all!  I'd like to see one of those up close, just to see how much those little adjusters can affect the angle over the bridge.  Could it be more than 1/4 inch or so?

 

You know, I've seen those things on Gibson guitars for years and always thought they were a version of the TP6.  In fact, I've played a few equipped with one of these but I never fooled with the adjuster (which would likely have "tuned" the string nonetheless, because of the change in string tension).  Great info!!

 

Here are some descriptions from Harmony Central (both describe the tailpiece on the Howard Roberts):

 

"Let's talk about this finger tailpiece. It is an Oettenger tailpiece and made in Germany. A four string version has been used on expensive banjos since the 20's. I've heard these finger tailpieces sell for over $300 new. The purpose of this tailpiece is not to fine tune the instument. It is used to adjust the tension of the individual string. You can change or mix gauges and adjust the string tension to your liking."

 

"The 'fingers' tailpiece allows you to adjust the downward pressure on the bridge. All the way up gives it that 'floating' tailpiece sound/feel (like a 175), while screwed down tight gives it that Les Paul sound and feel. I prefer the most amount of downpressure I can get and I've got every string as tight as can be without making contact with the wood. Nice sustain."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe I'm remembering this from some guitar-fixated dream I had once, but wasn't there another version of this tailpiece that had the little knobs right up next to where the strings attach, not at the bottom of the tailpiece?  I could just be confused--that happens more and more lately . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I get it!  I had some trouble wrapping my mind around Heritage putting a "shredder" tail piece on that guitar.  It was a wild mind picture.  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, what a great bunch of replys.  This is why I joined, and why I'm glad to be here.

 

Regards to all, paulg510

 

Stick around longer you'll love it. Wait til the zingers start flying. Brent is usually the easiest and takes the most shots. :P

 

He usually deserves it but it is more just cause he such a great guy. I should warn you though he does a strange thing: he throws his guitars and child in the grass for hours at a time and then takes pics of their misery! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great info here on the TP-6 and other fine tuners, and no disrespect intended, but I think that the "finger" tailpiece that Paulg510 has on his Johny Smith has a different purpose.   ...and Paul, I think you are right, and the Elderly folks are wrong this time.  The finger tailpiece, as you thought, is designed to allow individual adjustment of the break angle of each string, and therefore the tension (at pitch, as discussed in our threads about cranking down stop tailpieces.)  It is not designed to be adjusted at pitch, like the TP-6.  I double checked the Gibson site's description of this tailpiece, which they use on the Howard Roberts, and they describe it as allowing individual adjustment of string angle. 

 

Even the huge tailpieces on L-5's and Super 400's had a "tension adjustment," which raised or lowered the string-attachment end of the tailpiece.  I've never seen a Heritage trapeze with a similar adjustment.  My 2 cents. 

 

 

I've got the Heritage  JS and you are right that it is not a fine tuner. The confusion comes from the fact that the knobs on the tailpiece look

like violin fine tuning knobs, but the mechanism is different.

 

The purpose *is* to adjust the "break" angle over the bridge. But why is not so clear to me. It's difficult for me to understand how this would affect string tension, which should be determined entirely by the string gauge, pitch,  and scale length. THe only explanation I could come up with is that it increases the force that each string individually makes on the bridge, and hence (theoretically) would allow you to make some strings relatively quieter (or louder) than the others. Whatever the case, other than looking cool the only effect I can attest to is that it makes changing  strings slightly easier since I don't have to worry about the ball slipping out of the bridge before the tension is tight enough.

 

Paul, Enjoy the guitar. I like mine. Read the Floater thread I started if you don't like the pickup yours came with.

 

Paul K

 

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=fibrationboy

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=240975

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, what a great bunch of replys.  This is why I joined, and why I'm glad to be here.

 

Regards to all, paulg510

 

there is a great Heritage knowledge base here.  Glad to see you hanging out! ;D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stick around longer you'll love it. Wait til the zingers start flying. Brent is usually the easiest and takes the most shots. :P

 

He usually deserves it but it is more just cause he such a great guy. I should warn you though he does a strange thing: he throws his guitars and child in the grass for hours at a time and then takes pics of their misery! 

 

;D ;D  kids love playing outside....the guitars, well, the green contrast nicely ;D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...