barrymclark Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 My quest for an external speaker cab has begun. The 6" speaker is cool for practice, but this guy needs to jam with others. Still not sure between a 10" or 12" speaker. I really liked the 12 I plugged into, so I should try a 10 for comparison. Then I may ask, "How about TWO 10's?" Probably keep to a single for portability. Anyway I go, it will be great fun and cool sounds. I can't believe it's taken this long for me to find the sweet world of 5F1 tone. As much as I love my Boogies and Deluxe Reverb and even Cube 60, I have a feeling the little puppy with the big bark will be used as much as any two of the others. Whodathunk one knob could dial in such magic? Yes sir! Once my Starlite is finished, I may be looking forward to another custom amp that is indeed based off the Champ. My Starlite has a Volume knob only on channel 1 but the power section is more Deluxe like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Ah, most o' you boys think waaaay small. Wait until you hear a beefed up Champ through a 2/12 Altec 417's, 2/15 JBL G135 or Leslie G27cab, have and have done those rigs lots of times. With a 6v6 power tube driving the 2/15 the amp can only get to 11:00 on the volume knob before the other practice room musicians are crying "Uncle!" Fun to see the look of a Leslie G27 dwarfing the ratty old Silverface Champ resting on top of it on stage and hear the spitting snarl of the rotors spinning up and slowing down. Fun to stand in front of a pant flapping mouse that roars. @BMC, stick that AC4 right up your...2/12 cab, you will like lots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 @BMC, stick that AC4 right up your...2/12 cab, you will like lots. I can imagine. I don't do loud these though. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I saw an interview where Joe Walsh described the Champ he used to record Funk 49. He said a big part of the tone he got on that song came from the super responsiveness you can get from an 6" (or maybe 8" -can't remember exactly) speaker. So you've got that base covered right now. In my case, I picked up a home built 1X12 that was modeled after the Bogner Cube dual ported extension cab. It really beefs up the output of my practice amp (Little Lanilei 3350) that came with a 6" speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yooper Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Ah, most o' you boys think waaaay small. Wait until you hear a beefed up Champ through a 2/12 Altec 417's, 2/15 JBL G135 or Leslie G27cab, have and have done those rigs lots of times. With a 6v6 power tube driving the 2/15 the amp can only get to 11:00 on the volume knob before the other practice room musicians are crying "Uncle!" Fun to see the look of a Leslie G27 dwarfing the ratty old Silverface Champ resting on top of it on stage and hear the spitting snarl of the rotors spinning up and slowing down. Fun to stand in front of a pant flapping mouse that roars. @BMC, stick that AC4 right up your...2/12 cab, you will like lots. Yes, but I need to carry the darn thing. "...interview where Joe Walsh..." Speaking of Ol' Joe, did anyone notice the amp he played through on Live at Daryl's House? I swear it was a Fender FM 120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 My solution for a killer Champ 8 incher is a 60's vintage University Diffusicone, goes from 70 to 13,000cps, Or I run a cable from the speaker jack to a 2/12 with Altecs most of the time. When I stick a 6l6 in the power tube socket there's a surprising amount of clean headroom, especially since I run a 5v4 rec tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 My quest for an external speaker cab has begun. The 6" speaker is cool for practice, but this guy needs to jam with others. Still not sure between a 10" or 12" speaker. I really liked the 12 I plugged into, so I should try a 10 for comparison. Then I may ask, "How about TWO 10's?" Probably keep to a single for portability. Anyway I go, it will be great fun and cool sounds. I can't believe it's taken this long for me to find the sweet world of 5F1 tone. As much as I love my Boogies and Deluxe Reverb and even Cube 60, I have a feeling the little puppy with the big bark will be used as much as any two of the others. Whodathunk one knob could dial in such magic? I think you have the right idea of using a 2x10 cabinet with the amp. If the head and cabinet are seperate, your back should be thankful. I sold my Marshall DSL40C last night. Why? Because when I used it live with two other guitarists, I won the volume war at about 50% volume. With a 40 watt 1x12, its just too darn loud.... But my 20 Watt Micro Head Peavey Valveking into a 2x12 cabinet, the sound is much better without being louder. I think the lower wattage, but in a larger cabinet may be the way to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 All this talk about Champ goodness is music to my ears...or eyes...or whatever! This is my current favorite Champ rig, especially since installing some new JJ 12AX7-S Gold Pin tubes. 18 watts of clean or dirt, depending on how far the Master Volume is cranked, or Midrange pot engaged. Champus Delicious!! sigh.... What size speaker is in that cab? and is it an open back or closed back cab? and what brand and type of speaker is that? Is that the champ that used to be a combo? Have I used my question quota? If not how many more do I get before I have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 sigh.... What size speaker is in that cab? and is it an open back or closed back cab? and what brand and type of speaker is that? Is that the champ that used to be a combo? Have I used my question quota? If not how many more do I get before I have? Just one more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Just one more.... one more what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 one more what? well played Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 one more what? Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokedtires Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yooper Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 One more test. I have an old 4ohm 4x12 Acoustic cab and decided to give it a go. Not the sweetest tone, but loud as heck. It's tough to intimidate a 5F1. They seem to demand, "Bring it on!". Just like a champ. I'll probably settle for a single 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 One more test. I have an old 4ohm 4x12 Acoustic cab and decided to give it a go. Not the sweetest tone, but loud as heck. It's tough to intimidate a 5F1. They seem to demand, "Bring it on!". Just like a champ. I'll probably settle for a single 12. Bringing it to Gregg's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yooper Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 "Bringing it to Gregg's?" That would be easy enough to do. Wonder if his big rigs can keep up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Bring it, crank it, spank it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I don't really have anything to add, other that the fact that this is a very cool thread, and very Champ-GAS Inducing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 "Bringing it to Gregg's?" That would be easy enough to do. Wonder if his big rigs can keep up? Maybe, we'll have to wait and see in a couple weeks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 One of the best parts about building your own baby tone monster is having fun seeing if it will smoke or break while you are wailing away on it. I had a blast doing that today. Stuck a vintage Philips ECG labeled Sylvania 6550 in the Frank-en-Champ's power tube socket for giggles. This tube is rated for about three times the output of the Champ circuit's original 6v6. This amp has about the same noise to volume ratio as the stocker, it just gets waaaay more gainy and loud due to the Allen and Heyboer mongo iron in it replacing the Fender issued. Also no neg feedback as well as a single resistor substitution after the tonestack greatly reducing the guitar signal losses to ground causes some nice mutant vigor in volume, dynamic, and tonal tendencies. Filter caps are way higher than stock values, no probs ever with the rec tubes either. There is no mush in the tones, they are rich and full from a rumbling bottom to the detailed top end. Attack is powerful with easily more spank and bounce than most amps. The fly in the ointment has to do with what this single ended circuit expresses through the speaker, some heater hum. The more heater current the power tube draws, the louder the hum. At loud stage volume settings the noise becomes audible in the front of the house, which is personally unacceptable. I beat that by running the speaker output through a Weber MASS 100 attenuator/ DI. I set it for minimum attenuation, and there was enough built in at that setting to cut the 60/120 cycle noise to acceptable levels while still getting so much more loud and clean from the 60's University Diffusicone speaker than any stock Champ could get, when ever desired... The 6550 tube's design stays clean right up to nearly max output, so the combination of the glass, iron, and circuit resulted in a lot more headroom than stock. When it does break up and let go, it snarls like an el34. Had a baritone guitar hooked up and was wailing away, my baby parrots on my shoulder. I banged a low note in the middle of a single note solo and one of them in reaction (and in time with the break in the solo) loosed a great big wet steamer that splatted through the vibrating strings onto the Gibson's top like a male hippo's flailing tail when marking territory. Needless to say, I took a brief break and did a wipedown. Takes a good low watt amp to knock the turd out of a bird with only an 8 inch speaker. After running it at way louder than normal gigging volumes for well over an hour, I shut it down and felt the power tranny, the heat was more than acceptable, not nearly as hot as I feared it would be. It's rated for enough heater current, but it's maxed out there when running the greedy 6550/kt88's. Since this amp gets little use playing out except for a very few small room gigs, I don't feel too bad about shutting it off between sets to let things cool down. The sound of a little amp that sounds like it should but refuses to blow up can be pretty glorious within the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 212Mavguy's above post has to be the most eloquent, passionate writing on the topic of Champs or "Frank-en-Champs" I've ever read. These little beasts can be quite addictive, especially when modified or connected to bigger cabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yes, VERY interesting stuff. As great as the technical stuff was, I about fell out my chair laughing when he described "knocking the turd out of a bird." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yes, VERY interesting stuff. As great as the technical stuff was, I about fell out my chair laughing when he described "knocking the turd out of a bird." Not sure what to think about that quote.... But it is something to scare to crap out of some thing literally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Thanks for the compliments. Took the little guy out to a local open jam last night that I had never attended before. There was a full band setup, drums, PA, monitors, the whole R&R thang. I had to get it running about 80% cranked running the output through the MASS to get enough solo volume, but it had it and dealt it like the fat lady in the opera with some on the dial to spare, unmiced. I didn't hear hum over the background noise, either. The overall band mix was quite a bit louder than what my band uses at their venues. Nice litmus test result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Nice.... Gives the low wattage amps hope of hanging with the big dogs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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