ElNumero Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I read a great review in VG about this amp and I was considering it. Does anybody here own one or have any experience with this amp? I am assuming, because this amp is only $1499, that this reissue does not have point to point wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 No personal experience with this amp, but some reviews comment on Supro reliability issues. IF I were in the market for a low watt (20 - 25) point to point amp it would be a Heritage Victory. They come up on the used market every so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Superior thinking Gitfiddler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyv4 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 I have not tried the Supro Black Magic amp, but I do own a Supro Royal Reverb. this amp is great. both A and AB. It has fantastic reverb and termelo. worth a look at only a couple of hundred dollars more. It is also a self biasing amp, so changing tubes is a snap. Downside, it's a heavy amp at 65 ponds. I have had no issues with the amp. I love mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysteryman1953 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 hours ago, kennyv4 said: I have not tried the Supro Black Magic amp, but I do own a Supro Royal Reverb. this amp is great. both A and AB. It has fantastic reverb and termelo. worth a look at only a couple of hundred dollars more. It is also a self biasing amp, so changing tubes is a snap. Downside, it's a heavy amp at 65 ponds. I have had no issues with the amp. I love mine. Even more superior!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalismanRich Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 The new Supros are circuit board amps, but compared to the original Valco designs, that's not a bad thing. Valco didn't necessarily use the highest quality parts, an the wiring was often VERY haphazard. All of the Valco amps I have looked at used terminal strips with components hanging off the tabs and wires crisscrossing everywhere. That's part of the "charm" of a Valco amp. Here a comparison of the old and new versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Valco, Supro, Harmony and Lectrolab amps from the early 60's were all made at the same Sound Projects factory in the Chicago area. They were all point to point/turret strip wiring. And yes, the parts used were not the best. I own and have left the circuits pretty much intact in two Sound Projects amps, a '61 Harmony H-306a, and a'65 Lectrolab R600c. These early American crafted amps are not sacred in my opinion. I increased the power section filter cap's values, swapped out the original tone caps for military paper in oil ones, yanked the vintage Jensen C12R ceramic and alnico P12R speakers, substituted similar time period, fuller sounding University Diffusicone 12" speakers, and replaced the wimpy output transformers with much more robust ones, mounting the much more massive replacements in the bottom corner of the cabinet. The speaker baffles are less than a half inch thick compressed PAPER, these old hand wired spaghetti guts' brands are the ones I refer to as vintage cheese amps. After I boogered both of these, they sound absolutely amazing for what they look like. Both use footswitchable bias modulating tremolo, that feature is not often found in anything but boutique modern builds, and is a real harmonic honey producer. When the power tubes are starved for current at the low volume part of the tremolo, , harmonics are produced that carry on when the tubes do have enough current flowing, at the high volume part of the tremolo volume wave. It's possible to adjust this tremolo type to sustain as a solid note breaking into tremolo for a varying amount of quarter note's worth of time later in the sustain, depending on string attack. This is heard particularly well when cranked up on the volume knob. It can definitely put out an emotional feeling into the room, very expressive with passion to spare into the listening room or recording. Tone is powerfully subliminal in it's effect on both the player and audience! Having the tube sockets mounted on the printed circuit boards in the modern production is not the best way to build a PCB design. It is somewhat acceptable with the tubes mounted upright, but having the power and rectifier tubes hanging upside down with the sockets on the PCB's instead of mounted to the chassis is a cost cutting procedure which results in a lot of tube generated heat convecting and conducting upwards into the PCB's, particularly with power tubes operating in hot running class A. I'm not surprised that the new ones are supposed to sound great, my oldie moldy boogered vintage cheese ones certainly do! And just like the old motorcycles and cars redone in the art custom shops since the 60's now displayed on modern TV shows, the vintage cheese amps are going up in value, but in most cases someone with soldering skills and informed intent can take vintage cheese and booger it into greatness for less than the new ones' price tags. It is an absolute blast to play out through a wolf in sheep's clothing! YMMV... Boutique amps for boutique guitars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 With all due respect to Tim and Mavguy, who certainly know whereof they speak, allow me anecdotal evidence on the new Supro stuff. I was intrigued. I had some cash to burn. My pals at a local boutique shop had just acquired the Supro line. I bit. Snagged a 1624T Dual Tone after spending some time with it. I'm in a working band, The Luxuriant Sedans, kind of a hybrid of Butterfield's non-horn iterations and Humble Pie. We don't play at cocktail volume. I have played a lot of different amps with this band: Boutique builds from two different builder friends, heavily modded Fender Deluxe reissue, Top Hat Super Deluxe, Vintage Fender Bassman, Suhr Badger 30 (which I still use for larger venues and outdoors), and the Supro. Since I bought the Supro almost a year ago, I rehearse with it twice a week and have gigged it in small clubs maybe twenty times. It's marvelous! Doesn't exacerbate my old guy back issue, hasn't given me any trouble, at 24 watts it has plenty of authoritative club juju at half volume, and it sounds just absolutely terrific! I'm bad for modding stuff, as I have a good pal, an amp builder, who's more than happy to Frankenstein anything. Haven't touched the Supro. And I won't. Takes pedals wonderfully! At a gig last month, a friend of mine, Mitch Easter, who produced R.E.M.'s first two records and owns The Fidelitorium studio and was playing a Marshall 100 W plexi in the late '60's described my tone as "impeccable." I adore that Supro.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LK155 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 'Slate, your tone is likely always impeccable, no matter the amp. Unlike mine, sometimes referred to as impeachable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalismanRich Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 7 hours ago, 212Mavguy said: Valco, Supro, Harmony and Lectrolab amps from the early 60's were all made at the same Sound Projects factory in the Chicago area. They were all point to point/turret strip wiring. And yes, the parts used were not the best. I own and have left the circuits pretty much intact in two Sound Projects amps, a '61 Harmony H-306a, and a'65 Lectrolab R600c. These early American crafted amps are not sacred in my opinion. I increased the power section filter cap's values, swapped out the original tone caps for military paper in oil ones, yanked the vintage Jensen C12R ceramic and alnico P12R speakers, substituted similar time period, fuller sounding University Diffusicone 12" speakers, and replaced the wimpy output transformers with much more robust ones, mounting the much more massive replacements in the bottom corner of the cabinet. The speaker baffles are less than a half inch thick compressed PAPER, these old hand wired spaghetti guts' brands are the ones I refer to as vintage cheese amps. After I boogered both of these, they sound absolutely amazing for what they look like. I was under the impression that Valco and Sound Projects were different manufacturing companies, with both building for other brand names, like Harmony. Valco did a lot more "ghost" building for other brands, both guitars and amps. National, Supro, Oahu, Silvertone, Kay, Harmony, Gretsch, Airline and Vega. SP amps seem to be much more rare. I've only run across a couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 If it's good enough for 'Slate, it's more than good enough for me! Time will tell on the reliability issue, a few years will tell the story better than any of my words. RESPECT! Re: Valco and Sound Projects, TR, you might well be correct. But under the hood-wise, they share a LOT of similarities. 'Nuff said from me on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 1 hour ago, 212Mavguy said: If it's good enough for 'Slate, it's more than good enough for me! Time will tell on the reliability issue, a few years will tell the story better than any of my words. RESPECT! Re: Valco and Sound Projects, TR, you might well be correct. But under the hood-wise, they share a LOT of similarities. 'Nuff said from me on this thread. Really flattered, no, really...as I read all your definitive amp posts, which are well beyond my ken, and wonderfully well written. And yep, we'll see about reliability issues over time. I am putting some hours on it, though, as well as dragging it around! And thanks for the kind words from you, too, Lyle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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