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Pre Corp Heritage Guitar or Post Corp... Which would you buy?


Erob

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Hi All,  

I believe this to be my first posting here on the form, before doing so I searched trying to find if this topic had already been discussed but I could not find anything.  My apologies if this has already been bantered around.

So I am looking for my first Heritage H150 and am open to any and all feedback on whether to buy a pre corporate H150 or newer post corporate guitar. In my mind I think it could be said the newer ones are more "cookie cutter" since much of the work is being done with a CNC machine, Plek, etc. Now the term "cookie cutter" can seem negative so I want to clarify that I understand the positives of the end result as well,  the guitars are more accurate and consistent in build versus a handmade model by a luthier.  I also realize what a person wants will go both ways. One person may find the uniqueness of each guitar more desirable since each was built by an individual luthier, another person would find consistency to be the desired result.  Since Heritage Guitar is now owned by a parent corporate company, can it be argued they are basically now on the same level of Gibson but at a much smaller scale. The factory being more machine with less people.  Appealing... yes? No?  Many people find greater value in something that is "hand made" whereas others find greater value in something made using tools to provide the best precision possible.  Years from now when my feeble hands will not be able to play the guitar; which era would be the more desirable? Pre Corp or post Corp?  I could go on and on and yes perhaps the bottom line is "who cares" find one I like and enjoy it.

I can say this, from a corporate/ marketing viewpoint the decision to control inventory is smart. Capitalism is all about supply and demand. Limiting the supply increases demand equaling better perceived value.  

My brain hurts. 

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I'm more inclined to buy from the golden era.  But you said it well:
find one I like and enjoy it.

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Welcome Erob!

I think of Heritage and Gibson being cousins. There are some things which Heritage has always done better than Gibson, and at times, there are things which Gibson has done better. So I wouldn't say that they are only now "on the same level as" Gibson. The most important thing is to find a guitar where each of the important factors (fret job, nut, neck carve etc.) has been done correctly. Of secondary importance is stuff like... do you like the finish and so on? I have often berated Gibson for using "Mother of Toilet Seat" as their inlay material whereas Heritage has always used real Mother of Pearl. (If that ever changes, someone let me know.)

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You have nailed most of the pro/cons.

My 2 cents depends on your preference for color, neck carve and special features like MOP "the Heritage" bound headstock, wood scratch guards. Then you have available new stock vs available pre-owned.

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Hey, Erob...Welcome to the HOC.

Your Heritage guitar buying analysis is well thought out.  And yes, there may be a difference between pre and post 'Golden Era'/'Bandlab' instruments, but almost all of the comments about the new guitars coming out of Kalamazoo are very positive.  I love my old H150 and H157 and have not had an opportunity to play any new ones.

The best thing to do is actually play a 150 if possible.  Not sure where you are located, but that's what I would try to do.

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Thanks for the welcome guys.

I wish so much there were a local guitar store with several of these hanging on the wall but not to be. I am in the eastern most tip of Tennessee; Kingsport / Bristol. Needless to say if it doesn't have Martin on the headstock or a round white drum head with 5 tightly wound strings you will most likely not find many stores with quality electric guitars - new or used. So that leaves me with the only one option for buying a Heritage, buying one off of the internet without playing it first. Being 56 years old, in years passed I had the pleasure of going into a local store, sitting down and being able to compare three or four identical guitars but as many of you already know unless you live in a huge city brick and mortar stores are a thing of the past.  It's not like I've just started looking for one of these, but my search has gotten more serious and right now I have found two that I like a lot.  One is a 2007 listed on Guitar Center, it's an almond burst and the tax, tags, title and delivery to my door would be around $1,625. More than what I was wanting to pay but.....

The other is one I found on Craigslist from a private seller, it's a honey colored 2000 H150 and he has owned it for years. That is going to be around $1450 to my door BUT the tip of the headstock on the back has some chipping, he used it onstage with his band.  

Me, I've been playing for 35+ yrs for my pleasure and I'm one of those that values condition plus functionality. Anyway, we will see where this takes me. Thanks for the replies and input so far.

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4 hours ago, Erob said:

since much of the work is being done with a CNC machine,

The Harmony models from Parsons Street are the only ones using a CNC machine.  None of the Heritage guitars are. 

The Heritage models are still more handmade than Custom Shop Gibby's. 

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I've heard nothing but good things about the new era Heritage guitars but I simply prefer my USA built guitar companies not being owned by a couple of Canadian real estate developers and the son of a Chinese billionaire.

Golden Era 4 Life!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Erob said:

Thank you for that info Fred and Pressure, I was not aware of the H150's still being made by hand. 

I would go with  a new one, better fretwork and nut, there is nothing the old ones have that is an advantage, they are 6's from there on out. Why wouldn't you want it PLEK'd? The new guard is placing a high priority on quality from what I can see. This pre-bandlab moniker ie Golden Era as a status symbol is ridiculous, unless you consider bad fretwork and poorly cut nuts the Golden Era. Both of mine are Golden Era and I paid a pretty penny dialing in the frets and nut on both of them. 

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21 minutes ago, rockabilly69 said:

I would go with  a new one, better fretwork and nut, there is nothing the old ones have that is an advantage, they are 6's from there on out. Why wouldn't you want it PLEK'd? The new guard is placing a high priority on quality from what I can see. This pre-bandlab moniker ie Golden Era as a status symbol is ridiculous, unless you consider bad fretwork and poorly cut nuts the Golden Era. Both of mine are Golden Era and I paid a pretty penny dialing in the frets and nut on both of them. 

Very well put.  I couldn't agree more.  I had to put money into all 4 that I've owned to fix or replace poorly cut nuts, unevenly cut nuts, and unevenly cut string slots in the bridge saddles.  The most recent being a 2017, and none of them should have gotten out of the factory the way they were but after getting these issues taken care of I really love the guitars.  My friend has a 2018 that he won at last year's PSP raffle and it was perfect in every way.  You won't have issues with a new one but be prepared to dump some money into an old one If you go that route.  Good luck with your search

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"Golden Era" as POLO has named it certainly has guitars with function issues but I would imagine those are the exception and not the rule.

PRESSURE named the "new" years "Plaza Era" and as expected with the influx of new machinery finishing the guitars, instead of hands, it is not unreasonable the finished guitar is more consistent and less flawed. 

What an interesting conversation. 

 

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In my humble opinion, any of the Les Paul style guitars, whether they are made by Heritage or by Gibson, will need a plek job due to specifically how they are made. But I also play with a very low string setup which makes it very easy to find frets that buzz. Eventually I just came to terms with the idea that any Heritage guitar I bought, would need to immediately go to the shop to get a plek job. This is also the first thing I remind myself of whenever I am tempted to buy a used Heritage. So I'm really glad that the new owners are taking that subject seriously and having the guitars plek'd before they leave the factory. I would now have a lot more confidence buying a newer model over the internet sight unseen because I know they are doing a much better job with the frets and the nut now than before.

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1 hour ago, HANGAR18 said:

In my humble opinion, any of the Les Paul style guitars, whether they are made by Heritage or by Gibson, will need a plek job due to specifically how they are made. But I also play with a very low string setup which makes it very easy to find frets that buzz. Eventually I just came to terms with the idea that any Heritage guitar I bought, would need to immediately go to the shop to get a plek job. This is also the first thing I remind myself of whenever I am tempted to buy a used Heritage. So I'm really glad that the new owners are taking that subject seriously and having the guitars plek'd before they leave the factory. I would now have a lot more confidence buying a newer model over the internet sight unseen because I know they are doing a much better job with the frets and the nut now than before.

None of my custom shop Les Pauls (I currently own 2) have needed a PLEK, EVER or any nutwork, or either of my SGs, or my Firebird, or my J45 or my J100 Xtra, although I did have another Firebird (which I sold ASAP) with a loose tuner and a pickup cover fall off, and another ES335 with file marks on the binding, but back to fretwork, all three of my Golden Era Heritages needed it, or to properly say, needed both nuts and fretwork! Fretwork and nuts, and Nashville bridges, are the only thing I complain about when it comes to the Golden Era Heritages. My two Heritages after the work have been keepers, and I'm pretty picky, so that's saying something.

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4 hours ago, Polo said:

I've heard nothing but good things about the new era Heritage guitars but I simply prefer my USA built guitar companies not being owned by a couple of Canadian real estate developers and the son of a Chinese billionaire.

Golden Era 4 Life!!!!

 

thanks to the Canadian real estate developer and rich Indonesian businessman's son we still have HERITAGE guitars. that is a blessing if you ask me. the alt was no more Heritage, no more Kalamazoo made guitars! better yet, the quality is better than pre plaza.

chico

 

4 hours ago, Polo said:

 

 

 

 

 

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Technically,  Meng is from Singapore, which is at the tip of Malaysia.   Singapore is actually an independent nation, much like Monaco is an independent nation.   it is separated from Malaysia by water, unlike Monaco where the country borders France and there are actually houses that cross the border.   (that must make things tough if you need a passport to get to the bathroom!)   I only know this because Formula 1 races in both countries and being street races, you can look up the tracks on Google maps.   I think its strange that F1 races in two of the smallest countries in the world.   Maybe they need one in the Vatican!

 

... and yes, Chico,  I agree that it was much better for PlazaCorp and Bandlab to invest in Heritage than to have the owners simply close up shop because no one wanted the business.  

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On the other hand, my H-150 needed nut work, and I put in top dollar ThroBak pickups in it. It was still cheaper than the custom shop '57 Reissue goldtop that was my favorite Les Paul. And it happened to sound and play better for me.

There's also a sentimental value in instruments made by the people we've met and learned so much from.

However you get there, it's worth the journey. 

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15 minutes ago, Yooper said:

However you get there, it's worth the journey. 

None more truer words Yoop! if the bones are good with what you are starting with a set of Throbaks and a bit of nut work will surely get you there. unlike yourself my '57 reissue is the best guitar I own, of many. And it's bone stock. I could easily see an H150 being great Heritage gets some nice wood!

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In 2008 I went to Kzoo and met a few like minded people at the Heritage factory.  I met the owners and over the years became good friends with the people of Kzoo.  There was a mojo back then.  The mojo died in 2016 -I was there to see it.  The only link to that mojo is through the original Heritage era. 

If Heritage was building poor guitars Roy Clark and other top notched artist wouldn't have endorsed them.  I don't want to talk about build quality here.  That is a personal choice.  All of the old Heritage guitars I have personally seen have been top notch guitars.  I would say that you could buy a used Heritage, and with the adjustments to your style of playing you would be very happy with your guitar.  You pay more for the Gibson mojo.  Why not play less for the original Heritage mojo. 

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Considering everything equal is it fair to say if I could find a Golden Era H150 with upgraded pickups and no fret / nut / etc issues, this is the BETTER than a Corp Heritage?  Best of both worlds.    Reason I'm asking is I found a 2000 H150 that fits this description BUT it has a small amount of finish chipping on the back of the head stock point.  The person that owns it played it on stage.  Me being me, it's not terrible but is very irritating.  Possibly could repair the damage making it tolerably for my particular self.  

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While I will always prefer the Golden era Heritage guitars, and have no real interest in the new Heritage Guitar Co. I'd say that beyond the aesthetic aspect of owning a Pre-Plaza Heritage, it would or would not necessarily be "better". My understanding is that the new production models are more consistent from a QC aspect. I purchase 90% of my gear used, and have only purchased 1 new Heritage. It was a 30th Anniversary model H-157, and it had absolutely terrible fretwork from the factory. Once I had that taken care of, (the vendor I purchased it from reimbursed me for the work) it was a nice guitar. As far as the one you're looking at, if it plays & sounds nice, I'd have no issues with the dings. Isn't that usually the sign of a good guitar anyway? The good ones are usually the ones that get played the most!! 

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What does it matter? It's Heritage, that's what matters!! Don't get hung up on who built it and just enjoy the brand!

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9 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

my '57 reissue is the best guitar I own

I'm sure it is. That '57 reissue was the best LP I ever had. I also had a '57 Black Beauty reissue that had a rubber neck that always needed adjustment. Great tone, though. A friend used it to record an album.

The un-potted ThroBaks and the more comfortable neck bumped the 150 to #1. Then there's my other #1 that happens to be a 150 gold top with P-90s. With those two, my "Les Paul" desires, needs, and tones were met. 

...Almost. I couldn't resist a nice LP Special for more P-90 goodness. My only "Les Paul" now.

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15 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

I would go with  a new one, better fretwork and nut, there is nothing the old ones have that is an advantage, they are 6's from there on out. Why wouldn't you want it PLEK'd? The new guard is placing a high priority on quality from what I can see. This pre-bandlab moniker ie Golden Era as a status symbol is ridiculous, unless you consider bad fretwork and poorly cut nuts the Golden Era. Both of mine are Golden Era and I paid a pretty penny dialing in the frets and nut on both of them. 

For me, the golden era thing isn't really about quality at all. It's about the people, the place and process of how things were done. 

Like others have said.....the mojo of it all is just gone.  

I do however see how this view point could be seen as ridiculous. 

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