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Advice from the Legend


DetroitBlues
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On 11/14/2022 at 3:40 PM, DetroitBlues said:

It most certainly did have a repair.  Scott has said he was using in band practice, left the guitar cable plugged in during a break.  When someone snagged the cord lying on the ground, pulled the guitar down from the stand.  I'd never had the guitar in the first place if it wasn't for the repair.  Couldn't afford it then.

Ren was impressed with the well done repair.  He thinks it was a prototype because of the specific attributes to the guitar.  He was rubbing a spot on the tip the headstock that should of had a "P" stamped.  Said it was too hard to tell now.

Always unplug cables when leaving on a stand!!! Especially on a stage!

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11 hours ago, brentrocks said:

I have always said that top wrapping is the best option for preventing forward pressure against your bridge!

 

nobody has ever called me a legend!?

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Legendary in turning guitars!

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Everyone thought DB was nuts when he was going to refin the 140. Now look at what they are saying!

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I get why people like a top-wrap.

I also get why we don't want strings bent tightly behind the bridge. Raising the tailpiece a bit can remedy that.

I don't like the top-wrap because it's more comfortable for me the other way.

I also don't know of anyone having any bridge problem because of not top-wrapping.

If it is better, why don't they top-wrap new guitars before sending them out?

Why did they sell guitars with the tailpieces that couldn't be top-wrapped?

With all due respect to Ren, how much does it REALLY matter?

Edited by Yooper
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2 hours ago, rwinking said:

I don't have my H140 handy today but it seems like it has one of those weird tailpieces that has those little saddles that you put the ball end into and then over the bridge. I have never top wraapped my strings but I am now intrigued by it and may have to get a new tailpiece for the 140.

I think Ren invented that tailpiece, didn't he?

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3 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

Can you please turn that red down you're burning my eyes! hahahahaha Really is that the same guitar????

No,  that's my '87 H-140, with no headstock break, pickups were changed to SD Alnico Pro IIs.  Otherwise it's stock.  I can't top wrap because it's still got the Schaller hardware.   It's rock solid and plays really great.

FWIW,  I like the clown,  and with the red that they used,  it won't fade out like those crappy 50's Gibbys!  😁

Edited by TalismanRich
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I believe a "rocking bridge" creates issues with the bridge posts tilting on a solid body but on a semi: excess downward force could sink or compromise the top. As Ren has seen 60 years of repairs coming back due to such, his advice is preventative.  The Farber system / posts address the first part of the problem. Nashville bridges being wider, can be problematic if the strings leaving the saddle rests on the rear of the bridge when the neck angle or top carve is not optimal. Raising the stoptail or going to an ABR-1 are a couple of ways to prevent this but have associated costs and to some would not be considered with parts not factory stock.  But top wrapping is a no cost solution. 

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2 hours ago, TalismanRich said:

...I can't top wrap because it's still got the Schaller hardware.   It's rock solid and plays really great.

Not smart to mess what's working for ya! As for the clown color, if it floats your boat... :)

Here's my babysh*t brown 1960 Musicmaster and it ain't winning no beauty contests:)

Musicmaster.jpg.1049f298862189b00618d09f4abd77d9.jpg

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9 hours ago, rwinking said:

I don't have my H140 handy today but it seems like it has one of those weird tailpieces that has those little saddles that you put the ball end into and then over the bridge. I have never top wraapped my strings but I am now intrigued by it and may have to get a new tailpiece for the 140.

Yep- I had an early 140 with the Schaller quick change tail piece. I always loved those, although I know many don't! They were always so easy to change strings with and I never had a problem with them- not sure why so many hated them?

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4 hours ago, TalismanRich said:

I seem to remember that Ren invented the TP-6 with the fine tuners.

s-l640.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=358b91be0ab76b

Yep- Ren absolutely invented the TP6. Seems like Schaller took the ball and ran with it- the quick change tailpiece is obviously a rip off of the TP6. All Ren's inventions. Ren made the world better for guitar players -that's for sure!

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On 11/13/2022 at 8:11 PM, DetroitBlues said:

 Visiting Heritage on Friday, by chance Mr. Ren Wall himself walked in while I was showing Mike my reacquainted H140 from 1985.  
 

Ren noticed the strings were top wrapped.  He said all those guitars should be top wrapped.  It’s less pressure on the bridge to reduce bridge collapsing.  Then his second piece of advice is to use no heavier gauge then 10’s because the thin necks at the nut could cause a headstock break.

 Sound advice from the man himself.

 

 

 

 

Well, I LOVE Ren but.... if it was such a systemic problem stringing tuneamatic bridge guitars traditionally (of Heritage guitars specifically) WHY aren't they shipped from the factory top-wrapped?

I think if you have the guitar setup correctly (where the strings don't hit the back of the bridge on the way to the stoptail), our guitars are going to survive just fine.  I don't use 11s so I can't comment on the extra tension, but with 10s I think 65 years has proven a well setup guitar will maintain it's bridge and headstock (short of a fall) just fine.

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10 hours ago, Yooper said:

I get why people like a top-wrap.

I also get why we don't want strings bent tightly behind the bridge. Raising the tailpiece a bit can remedy that.

I don't like the top-wrap because it's more comfortable for me the other way.

I also don't know of anyone having any bridge problem because of not top-wrapping.

If it is better, why don't they top-wrap new guitars before sending them out?

Why did they sell guitars with the tailpieces that couldn't be top-wrapped?

With all due respect to Ren, how much does it REALLY matter?

Agreed.  I didn't read your post before I sent mine.

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14 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

Can you please turn that red down you're burning my eyes! hahahahaha Really is that the same guitar????

No, just the same era of guitars.  Back then, the only colors were Cherry, Original Sunburst, or Cherry Sunburst.   Cherry Sunburst seems to be the most common finish.

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5 hours ago, Heritage1970 said:

Yep- I had an early 140 with the Schaller quick change tail piece. I always loved those, although I know many don't! They were always so easy to change strings with and I never had a problem with them- not sure why so many hated them?

Mine was replaced because there was something wrong with the High E, it kept cutting into the string.  I'd snap a new string within hours and I'm not a heavy strummer.  

Otherwise, I think the original Schaller stuff is fine.  I'd rather put the old hardware back on this if I can find a decently priced set.

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8 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

Here's my babysh*t brown 1960 Musicmaster and it ain't winning no beauty contests:)

I had one of those in blue with a maple fretboard. I don't know what year the guitar was. I bought it from George Gruhn when he lived in his parents home in Morton Grove Illinois. Good times.

Edited by pressure
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3 hours ago, DetroitBlues said:

Mine was replaced because there was something wrong with the High E, it kept cutting into the string.  I'd snap a new string within hours and I'm not a heavy strummer.  

Otherwise, I think the original Schaller stuff is fine.  I'd rather put the old hardware back on this if I can find a decently priced set.

Yeah it's weird I've heard a bunch of people say the same thing, that they were having problems with the high E particularly. Luckily I guess I never had one that gave me that trouble! But yeah, I think it was a great invention, obviously taken directly from Ren's tp6 design too.

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12 hours ago, Heritage1970 said:

Yep- I had an early 140 with the Schaller quick change tail piece. I always loved those, although I know many don't! They were always so easy to change strings with and I never had a problem with them- not sure why so many hated them?

I have had those little saddles fall out. Luckily I was always at home changing strings and it didn't get far. it would be a real bitch if I were trying to change on a gig and it happened. I guess that is why I always have a spare guitar at a gig.

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12 hours ago, Heritage1970 said:

Yep- Ren absolutely invented the TP6.

I love the TP-6 and have one on my H170. They are pretty expensive from Gibson though. I ordered one from a Korean company and it turned out it was for an Epiphone Korean Les Paul which is a slightly different size. Anyone know of any reasonably priced TP6 style bridge that will work on an American guitar?

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Just now, rwinking said:

Anyone know of any reasonably priced TP6 style bridge that will work on an American guitar?

Sorry, I meant tailpiece not bridge....

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6 hours ago, rwinking said:

I love the TP-6 and have one on my H170. They are pretty expensive from Gibson though. I ordered one from a Korean company and it turned out it was for an Epiphone Korean Les Paul which is a slightly different size. Anyone know of any reasonably priced TP6 style bridge that will work on an American guitar?

Yeah you're right, anything that's like a TP6 but more affordable doesn't ever fit on American made guitars. I've tried searching before. Frustrating... 

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17 hours ago, pressure said:

I had one of those in blue with a maple fretboard. I don't know what year the guitar was. I bought it from George Gruhn when he lived in his parents home in Morton Grove Illinois. Good times.

I've never played one with a maple fretboard, and this 1960 is my second babysh*t brown one, the first was a 1959. I could tell them apart if my life counted on it!

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