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WTB: Fender Dual Showman cabinet, 2 x 15"


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#1 JohnCovach

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 05:39 PM

I'm looking for a Dual Showman cab to go with my late-60s silverface Dual Showman Reverb head. Mostly I'm looking for a cab in good condition, regardless of the speakers. I'm in Rochester and can drive to pick up the right cab (within about six hours one way). Anybody got one of these kicking around they can part with? Or know of one available?
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#2 tulk1

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 06:06 PM

I'm looking for a Dual Showman cab to go with my late-60s silverface Dual Showman Reverb head. Mostly I'm looking for a cab in good condition, regardless of the speakers. I'm in Rochester and can drive to pick up the right cab (within about six hours one way). Anybody got one of these kicking around they can part with? Or know of one available?


I wouldn't mind having one of those again, either, John. ........ :drink_mini:
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Kenny

Quote: "You know, all things considered, we are very, very lucky to have all that we do, an embarrassment of riches, actually."
From the CZ Firearms Forum: "If at first you don't succeed, perhaps skydiving isn't for you"

Heard at one venue: "Well, then mic the drummer so you can turn him down!!"

From life in general: "Two silk worms had a race. They ended up in a tie"

 

Good transactions with: yoslate, jc (x2), kuz, shook494, katy.


#3 rjsanders

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 01:08 PM

IIRC (iffy) those didn't have the tone rings. so, maybe a replacement by Peter Mather might be the ticket(?)...just a thot...

j
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R.J. "jeff" Sanders (aka hawkeyeinexile)
Santa Clara, CA
'87 HFT-445, '87 HB-1 bass, '00 Millennium DC (NAMM '01)
Heritage Colonial, Briton II, Victory heads + Heritage & Mather cabs

#4 JohnCovach

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 01:41 PM

IIRC (iffy) those didn't have the tone rings. so, maybe a replacement by Peter Mather might be the ticket(?)...just a thot...

j


Mather makes great cabinets. I bought a new cab for my Dual Showman Reverb head from him. If I can't find a Fender Showman cab, I'll just have him make one for me. Weber makes a repro JBL 15 that will do the job, so I can get a repro cab and the right-sounding speakers if all else fails.
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#5 rjsanders

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 03:13 PM

Mather makes great cabinets. I bought a new cab for my Dual Showman Reverb head from him. If I can't find a Fender Showman cab, I'll just have him make one for me. Weber makes a repro JBL 15 that will do the job, so I can get a repro cab and the right-sounding speakers if all else fails.


that will certainly be one hell-of-a rig. i just took my '64 showman head in for a (non-destructive) mod. not that it's worth much anyway. i use it for bass mostly. now i use the Colonial on superbass settings & keep the showman as a backup. anyway, i've had it for >30 yrs & kept it cuz the market has never appreciated these things.

+ some maniac who had it before me punched a hole in the chassis for a line-out & put it right-where-the-serial number used to be :blob8: ;)

what speakers will you be looking for? me, i'd go for D130Fs, but those'd cost more than the cab itself...
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R.J. "jeff" Sanders (aka hawkeyeinexile)
Santa Clara, CA
'87 HFT-445, '87 HB-1 bass, '00 Millennium DC (NAMM '01)
Heritage Colonial, Briton II, Victory heads + Heritage & Mather cabs

#6 JohnCovach

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 03:19 PM

that will certainly be one hell-of-a rig. i just took my '64 showman head in for a (non-destructive) mod. not that it's worth much anyway. i use it for bass mostly. now i use the Colonial on superbass settings & keep the showman as a backup. anyway, i've had it for >30 yrs & kept it cuz the market has never appreciated these things.

+ some maniac who had it before me punched a hole in the chassis for a line-out & put it right-where-the-serial number used to be :blob8: ;)

what speakers will you be looking for? me, i'd go for D130Fs, but those'd cost more than the cab itself...


Click here:

Weber

Then, Weber Speakers
Then, High Power Series
Then Alnico 15" California

Baby!
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JC
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#7 rjsanders

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 03:35 PM

a little lighter, smaller voice coil; but that'd be high on my list, too. paper or aluminum dome?

it's a pleasure to hear of someone opting for the weightier gear choices in this age of neodymium & ultralights...go fer it, John! i'm actually thinking of a slant-front 1x15 Mather & looking for an EVM-15L (but may go for an weber alnico michigan 15...)

;)
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peace,
R.J. "jeff" Sanders (aka hawkeyeinexile)
Santa Clara, CA
'87 HFT-445, '87 HB-1 bass, '00 Millennium DC (NAMM '01)
Heritage Colonial, Briton II, Victory heads + Heritage & Mather cabs

#8 JohnCovach

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 03:40 PM

a little lighter, smaller voice coil; but that'd be high on my list, too. paper or aluminum dome?

it's a pleasure to hear of someone opting for the weightier gear choices in this age of neodymium & ultralights...go fer it, John! i'm actually thinking of a slant-front 1x15 Mather & looking for an EVM-15L (but may go for an weber alnico michigan 15...)

;)


I'll go for the aluminum dome--it has to shine through the grill cloth!

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#9 tulk1

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 09:14 AM

I'll go for the aluminum dome--it has to shine through the grill cloth!

Posted Image


John,

My brother played thru a Dual Showman 2x15 with the larger cab, just like this one. With the JBLs, too. It was one of the sweetest, and loudest! amps I've ever heard. Like a Twin on SuperSteroids. After he quite playing I kept that amp at my house. Used it on a couple of home recordings. Needed room and sold it. Just about 2 months (ya know, around that) before the big "vintage boom" for amps and guitars. Argh!!! Still have the original manual, tho'. Would dearly love to have that rig back. I have a wall in my music room just waiting for it. I say "good for you" and go get that sucker!! Looking forward to the vids/clips with you using that. BTW, which band?
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Kenny

Quote: "You know, all things considered, we are very, very lucky to have all that we do, an embarrassment of riches, actually."
From the CZ Firearms Forum: "If at first you don't succeed, perhaps skydiving isn't for you"

Heard at one venue: "Well, then mic the drummer so you can turn him down!!"

From life in general: "Two silk worms had a race. They ended up in a tie"

 

Good transactions with: yoslate, jc (x2), kuz, shook494, katy.


#10 JohnCovach

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 10:21 AM

John,

My brother played thru a Dual Showman 2x15 with the larger cab, just like this one. With the JBLs, too. It was one of the sweetest, and loudest! amps I've ever heard. Like a Twin on SuperSteroids. After he quite playing I kept that amp at my house. Used it on a couple of home recordings. Needed room and sold it. Just about 2 months (ya know, around that) before the big "vintage boom" for amps and guitars. Argh!!! Still have the original manual, tho'. Would dearly love to have that rig back. I have a wall in my music room just waiting for it. I say "good for you" and go get that sucker!! Looking forward to the vids/clips with you using that. BTW, which band?


Thanks. The Dual Showman is for the Yes band.
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JC
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#11 FredZepp

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 11:01 AM

I used a Blackface Dual Showman with the huge 2x 12 cab for many years. Mine had EV SRO speakers ( white coffee can model ) and provided a great sound.

I sold the amp, but kept the cab. You inspire me to plug it in for some fun sometime soon.

It was a crazy large cab for just 2 x 12, but the large vents gave it a certain sound and those speakers kept it clean.


( I can't help you with the 2x15, I just felt the need to reminisce for a moment... :P )
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#12 JohnCovach

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:19 PM

I found a Bassman cabinet nearby; it's a little shorter than the Showman. I've got Weber repros of the JBL 130's on the way, but here's what it looks like so far:

Posted Image
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#13 111518

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:34 PM

I found a Bassman cabinet nearby; it's a little shorter than the Showman. I've got Weber repros of the JBL 130's on the way, but here's what it looks like so far:

Posted Image


Cool, but something tells me the Bassman is a marker, even when you have the chrome domes peaking out, and that the quest for the Dual Showman Cab hasn't ended. I mean, does this one let you screw the head to the cab?
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#14 JohnCovach

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 07:01 PM

Hmmm, you may be right. Do you--or does anybody here--know of a resource for info about Fender cabinet design? More specifically, this Bassman cab has a center divider and is loaded with insulation. I'm pretty sure the center divider is stock, but I'm not sure if these cabs were insulated at the factory or if this is something that was done later. I've been checking out pictures of the bigger Showman cabs: one has a center divider, the other doesn't, and one has small ports in the baffle and the other doesn't. I didn't see insulation in either one. For as much info as there is on Fender amps, the info out there on the cabs is next to nothing. The search is made even more complicated because many people who think they have Showman cabs actually have Bassman cabs!!
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#15 tulk1

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 07:27 PM

But weren't there two different cabs for the Showman? The taller cab (which I had and John is looking for) and the shorter version, more like the Bassman cab?
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Kenny

Quote: "You know, all things considered, we are very, very lucky to have all that we do, an embarrassment of riches, actually."
From the CZ Firearms Forum: "If at first you don't succeed, perhaps skydiving isn't for you"

Heard at one venue: "Well, then mic the drummer so you can turn him down!!"

From life in general: "Two silk worms had a race. They ended up in a tie"

 

Good transactions with: yoslate, jc (x2), kuz, shook494, katy.


#16 rjsanders

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 07:35 PM

Hmmm, you may be right. Do you--or does anybody here--know of a resource for info about Fender cabinet design? More specifically, this Bassman cab has a center divider and is loaded with insulation. I'm pretty sure the center divider is stock, but I'm not sure if these cabs were insulated at the factory or if this is something that was done later. I've been checking out pictures of the bigger Showman cabs: one has a center divider, the other doesn't, and one has small ports in the baffle and the other doesn't. I didn't see insulation in either one. For as much info as there is on Fender amps, the info out there on the cabs is next to nothing. The search is made even more complicated because many people who think they have Showman cabs actually have Bassman cabs!!



well, first there's the Fender Amp Field Guide for dimensions & general hardware description, then Gregg Hopkins at Vintage Amp Restoration might be able to help, then a couple other Gregs - Gagliano and Huntington (but i've lost track of them). Peter Mather does cab repairs and may have the data you're looking for.
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peace,
R.J. "jeff" Sanders (aka hawkeyeinexile)
Santa Clara, CA
'87 HFT-445, '87 HB-1 bass, '00 Millennium DC (NAMM '01)
Heritage Colonial, Briton II, Victory heads + Heritage & Mather cabs

#17 111518

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:13 PM

I just did some quick digging, and I think Kenny is right. Found these two entries on a Fender brd. Sounds right, but I don't claim to know a lot about the history of Fender amps and cabs:

A 2 x 15 enclosure was the specified cab for the Dual Showman amp.

The "small-box" version used during the BF era was oriented horizontally and measured 24" x 36" x 11". Shortly before the switch to SF cosmetics (circa early spring of 1967) the box was enlarged to 30" x 45" x 11" with the orientation changed to vertical. The tilt-back legs were deleted on this cab.

Those "big-box" Dual Showman enclosures that were factory-equipped with JBL D140F bass speakers (an available option at the time) featured a small rectangular port on the lower right side of the baffle board.

and ...

The only "big-box" Dual Showman cabinets (30" x 45" x 11") to be factory-ported were those that were special-ordered with D140F bass drivers, which were a no-cost option.

As well, the first "formal" Dual Showman (where "Dual" was added to the front-panel nomenclature) was introduced in early 1967, to coincide with the introduction of the "big box" enclosure.

Prior to that the only way to distinguish between a 1 x 15 Showman head and that intended for use with the 2 x 15 cab was to check the part number on the OT. The single-speaker head (8Ω secondary) carried the part number "125A30A" on its tranny while the "dual-speaker" (4Ω secondary) model was stamped "125A29A".
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#18 JohnCovach

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 08:40 PM

Most of that conforms to what I've found: the "dual" designation meant two speakers and a 4-ohm load. The first dual cabs were the horizontal ones, but were not the big one, which seems to have been introduced with the silver Dual Showman Reverb. All of this is still a bit hazy, because different sources--online and print--do not agree 100%. A lot of sources mention JBL 140 speakers (the "F" simply meant Fender), but these are bass speakers. The standard speaker seems to have been the JBL 130, which is the 15" guitar speaker. So it's likely that the ports were added when somebody bought a cab with 140's. Just to confuse things a bit more, there's currently a late-60s showman cab on ebay with JBL 130's and ports but no center divider; another recently offered had no ports and a center divider. Egad!

So even within the world of the 1968-71 Dual Showman Reverb, there seem to be some discrepancies. Of course, this could be because Fender was always changing things, especially during this period, and it could also be because cabs get modified over the years.

One local dealer told me that his impression was that these cabs were designed for aesthetic appeal, without a lot of detailed thought going into the actual sonic qualities of the enclosure. When you open up a cab and it's loaded with insulation, it does make you wonder what the impact of interior dimensions and design really are!!
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#19 JohnCovach

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 09:07 PM

Just for fun, here's some more Fender promo stuff.

Here's the description form the 1968 catalog. Note that the depth of the cabinet is 11 1/2", not 9 1/2" as given in the brochure posted above; both 130 and 140 speakers are mentioned. This is not yet the Dual Showman Reverb:

Posted Image

Here's the 1970 catalog. Note the reference to "specially designed baffles":

Posted Image

Here's the 1972 catalog. Note the option for non-JBL speakers:

Posted Image
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JC
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