JohnCovach Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Hi all. I'm new to the list and happy to have found this forum. With the sale of Heritage, I wondered if others would care to speculate on what will happen to the company. Here are some ideas to kick this off: 1) The new owner(s) will raise the prices. If you have a significant wait, you can afford to ask more for each guitar. Under this scenario, not much would change except that the guitars would cost more (and the value of used guitars would rise as well). Or 2) There will be a move to improve efficiency and make more guitars faster. Prices may rise some, but an advertising campaign will begin to establish the Heritage name in the broader market, something like G&L have done. Or 3) Heritage will re-position itself as a high-end custom shop, making only expensive guitars and charging much more for them. Any other predictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitArtMan Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I think if the new owner has half a brain he wont change a thing - at least not for a while. His, or her, or their concern should be to meet the back log of orders and to train up the replacements for Jim, Marv, J.P. and Bill. I've been through a number of corporate buy outs and the ones that went the smoothest are where the new owners let things run the way they have always run to get a feel for the business. Then make they changes gradually as they feel they are needed. Coming in and making sweeping changes right off the bat is a sure way to cause a train wreck. Besides, Jay has already mentioned that the good ol' boys have agreed to stay on for a while to train up the youngin's. http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/i...opic,116.0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 I think you're right: the first thing to do is clean up the mess of unfilled orders. But most people who buy a business have ideas of where they want to take it, even if it takes a few years to get that happening. I remember when Fender licensed the rights to Gretsch a few years back. At first they just fixed the many production problems that had bogged the company down. But then they did some pretty positive things to get that brand back in front of folks again. On the (off)topic of Gretsch, I've heard it said many times that Fred Gretsch originally approached Heritage to build Gretsch guitars when he took over the company, but our boys in K'zoo passed. I've often wondered what the real story is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LH575 Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 The biggest thing in the next couple years is to do something with that headstock. This keeps many people from even considering the brand. I have warmed up to the headstock and kind of dig it now, but if you put an H150 and as LP Standard together - one has serious mojo, the other looks like it was built by the boys down at the VFW woodshop while the wives were off at bingo night. Sadly, many will stop there and move on. Pick up a Heritage and play it - then the headstock does not seem to matter so much. They are essentially Gibson clones that play really well, with a goofball headstock. I love my H555 and hopefully will love my H157 thats in the mail just as much. (edited due to the drinking of The Glenlivet. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Regarding the headstock: I have had people ask me after a show, "is that an Aria II you're playing?" I think your characterization gets it just right--there is a certain "Elks Club/Knights of Columbus/VFW" sensibility to some aspects of Heritage. It's very, well, Michigan. I find it endearing, but it definitely reduces the "mojo" factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LH575 Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 nothing reeks more than bingo night down at the VFW that this pretty thing: http://www.heritageguitar.com/models/AmericanEagle.htm I kid, but have a look at that tailpiece! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maj13th Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 OK, HERE WE GO. HERITAGE WILL GO THE WAY OF VANTAGE GUITARS. I.E. FACTORY WILL CLOSE, OUT SOURCE TO SOME OTHER COUNTRY. THOSE GUITARS MADE IN THIS COUNTRY WILL BE WILL BE KEEPSAKES. PRICES WILL SOAR OUT OF SIGHT, (WE WON'T SEE IT) OUR KIDS WILL SELL THEM AND MAKE A BUNCH OF MONEY. BRIGHTSIDE: WE HAD A HECK OF A TIME PLAYING THEM, AT A REASONABLE PRICE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 HAHAHAHAHAHA...the VFW/Elks/bingo night references have me laughing. That American Eagle is a little to patriotic for me, but hey, some people dig that kind of thing. You guys crack me up...woodshop on bingo night. Heh! Maj13th: I vaguely recall Vantage guitars. Back in the early 80s a friend of mine had a Vantage LP copy. It was a very nice guitar. I'll have to go look up their history and find out what you're referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferwave Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 As much as I'm personally against it I think the new owners will bring in CNC machines and mass production techniques. The old saying about Heritage was that there were two things you would never see at the Heritage plant - "A three piece suit and a CNC machine" I think both of those are about to change. I do agree though that the prices of our older models will rise after the sale of the company. I don't know how much the prices will rise but we will all own a piece of stringed instument history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squawken Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Did I miss the announcement of new owners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 I don't think there has been any official announcement. The last update we had was from Jay who said that they were close to getting back to production and that some arrangement had been made. I think that the general assumption is new ownership, or at least additional ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 That's correct--we're all just waiting for the official word. If folks haven't done it yet, it is interesting to read the several pages on this topic on The Gear Page, which go all the way back to July. One of the first posts quoted a Kazoo local who claimed that her boyfriend had been laid off at Heritage. If they did lay off employees in July, it might be tough to just open the doors and start back up some three months later. The longer this goes on, the more necessary it will be to make major adjustments to the way business is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maj13th Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 JOHN, HERITAGE TOOK THEIR HEAD STOCK DESIGHN FROM VANTAGE GUITARS. (ONLY KIDDING) THEY ARE ALMOST EXACTLY ALIKE THOUGH. DICK, VANTAGE WAS A COMPANY OUT OF JAPAN THAT MADE GUITARS FROM THE LATE SEVENTIES TO MID 80'S IN THE MATSUMUKO(JAPANESE MIGHT BE WAY OFF)PLANT. IT BURNED DOWN, NEW MANAGEMENT TOOK OVER, MOVED THEIR OPERATIONS TO KOREA. THEY STILL MAKE GUITARS, BUT THE GUITARS MADE FROM THE OLD PLANT ARE MUCH SOUGHT AFTER AND STEADILY GOING UP IN PRICE. THEY MADE SOME CLONES 335'S,LP'S,STRATS THAT RATTLED THE GUITAR WORLD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 That's correct--we're all just waiting for the official word. If folks haven't done it yet, it is interesting to read the several pages on this topic on The Gear Page, which go all the way back to July. One of the first posts quoted a Kazoo local who claimed that her boyfriend had been laid off at Heritage. If they did lay off employees in July, it might be tough to just open the doors and start back up some three months later. The longer this goes on, the more necessary it will be to make major adjustments to the way business is done. If you look at the stats page, the most viewed/most replied thread here was Heritage's Doors Closed Indefinitely?. I think I started that end of July when I stumbled across the eBay ad that referenced the factory layoff situation. It seems that the factory situation is a story with some legs, as it gets regular posts still (here and at TGP). Good point about the difficulty in bringing people back months later (if they did indeed lay them off). But, the economy in Michigan isn't what you would call 'red hot' so I'm thinking most of the employee's probably haven't gone off elsewhere. Hopefully, they'd come back and build more great guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Aha--I hadn't put it together that you were the one who had posted on this over on TGP, Dick. It sure has been an interesting story to watch unfold and I'll bet it will continue to be as things unfold. I have to say, I think "things returning to normal" is the most unlikely scenario, that's why I think it's interesting to speculate on how this might all turn out. I can certainly understand that the former Gibson guys are getting to a point in their lives where they are thinking of retiring. Forming Heritage was a way they could keep making guitars while remaining in Kazoo, and that has worked out well for them. But I imagine that now the issue is how to back away from the day-to-day operation of the business. Maybe there are some younger craftsmen there who can step up. And new people probably means new ideas. Has anybody heard if Abe Wechter has been involved in any of this? He's right there in Paw Paw and makes some first-rate acoustic guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted September 23, 2007 Share Posted September 23, 2007 Has anybody heard if Abe Wechter has been involved in any of this? He's right there in Paw Paw and makes some first-rate acoustic guitars. Yes, but hasn't he also outsourced some of his production to China? I don't think anyone will want an Asian-made Heritage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted September 23, 2007 Author Share Posted September 23, 2007 Yes, his lower-priced guitars are all made in China and then set up in Michigan, but he still has a line of handcrafted US-made guitars that are priced accordingly. Classical-guitar luthier Kenny Hill has done the same thing. I have handmade guitars by both of these guys and they are truly superb instruments; I've never even played the Chinese-made ones. I mention Abe only because he'd probably have known that all this was happening before most of us did (except Jay), and he was part of Gibson way back in the "Kasha soundboard" days. But he may well have his hands full right now and have no interest in branching out into electric guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Not to stray too far OT, but what manufacturer (other than Heritage) doesn't have an import line these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacerX Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Aha--I hadn't put it together that you were the one who had posted on this over on TGP, Dick. It sure has been an interesting story to watch unfold and I'll bet it will continue to be as things unfold. I have to say, I think "things returning to normal" is the most unlikely scenario, that's why I think it's interesting to speculate on how this might all turn out. I can certainly understand that the former Gibson guys are getting to a point in their lives where they are thinking of retiring. Forming Heritage was a way they could keep making guitars while remaining in Kazoo, and that has worked out well for them. But I imagine that now the issue is how to back away from the day-to-day operation of the business. Maybe there are some younger craftsmen there who can step up. And new people probably means new ideas. Has anybody heard if Abe Wechter has been involved in any of this? He's right there in Paw Paw and makes some first-rate acoustic guitars. Abe's US built guitars are top-flight instruments, but pricey to match. The import stuff is, in my humble opinion, crap. Reverend has done the same thing... along with a raft of others. Our hope should be that Heritage is not put on the "let's see who can build the biggest piece of disposable junk in China/Korea/Indonesia" bandwagon and remains a US manufacturing firm making top-flight instruments. That means that a concession to the fact that a CNC mill is vastly more accurate and repeatable than a human being using a fixture, and with the guidance and oversight of a skilled luthier results in a better instrument. There is no such thing as a human being that can rout a neck pocket to within .001", day-in-and-day-out - a CNC mill can do this with ease, all day, every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacerX Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Not to stray too far OT, but what manufacturer (other than Heritage) doesn't have an import line these days? I don't think Taylor does. And much like PRS, they are some CNC-using dudes who build a terrific instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soybean Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 The biggest thing in the next couple years is to do something with that headstock. They are essentially Gibson clones that play really well, with a goofball headstock. You guys don't realize that the heritage headstock is actually derived from Gibson. They had a famous headstock shape on their mandolins and even L5s nicknamed "snakehead" which is very similar to the Heritage. The H headstock is okay in my book, even superior to Gibson les paul shape because of the straight string pull. Look at a Gibson Pat Martino or Paul Jackson model and you'll see even Gibson realizes the Heritage shape makes sense. To me, Gibson's headstock looks "goofball" because they just used their acoustic shape on electric guitars without designing an electric headstock. Don't get me wrong… i love Gibsons too but every time i look at a 335, the headstock remind me of a cowboy guitar. Someone pointed out that Heritage made 2 sizes of their pegheads. I agree, the jumbo size does not look good. This size is used on some of the high end archtops, but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 Who wants to bet on whether there will be any news in September? My guess is "no." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankeefan01 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 I'm guessing we'll know something before October 12th. Hoping for good news there. Is it just me, or do any of you other guys cringe when the word outsourcing is mentioned? I think bye-bye quality and bye-bye US jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 I'm guessing we'll know something before October 12th. Just curious--what significance does Oct 12 have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankeefan01 Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Just curious--what significance does Oct 12 have? No significance, just the end of the 2nd week of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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