After Market Pickups: H-150 Pickup Cavities too shallow???

[jamison162]

Have you guys had any trouble with the pickup routing depth when installing aftermarker pickups?  I know Heritage uses Duncan's a lot (59's, Seth Lovers, etc.) but I'm finding the pickup cavities on my new H150 almost too shallow for Seth's.  Duncans use a standard bottom bracket but it is deeper/longer then the stock pickups bracket.  The neck bottoms out above the mounting ring.  It's a tad higher than I would like, and would really prefer the room to adjust them lower if I wanted to.  Bridge has the same problem; and it's due to the bracket flange, not really the screw lengths.  Any suggestions, short of routing or switching the brackets???/

[Thundersteel]

I'm interested in this as well, since I want to swap out my '59s for Seths also.

[Kazwell]

Just installed Seth Lovers in my H-150 last week, and yes, I noticed this as well. I tend to go for a medium height on the strings, but there is not much room to raise or lower the pickup. Don't seem to have too much trouble with the bridge pu, but then again, I don't set it as low as the neck pu.

 

I really don't think you have too many options here. Obviously, you don't want to route. The guitar is too valuable.

 

I would do this:

 

Take a pair of heavy duty pliers and bend the screw end portion of the flange back 45 degrees so the flange is completely straight all the way down. Then, starting at the bottom of the flange, move the pliers up past the new crease plus about that same length-or longer. and rebend it out 45 degrees. Using a steel drill bit, a hole in the middle of the new extemded section.  

[PacerX]

Just installed Seth Lovers in my H-150 last week, and yes, I noticed this as well. I tend to go for a medium height on the strings, but there is not much room to raise or lower the pickup. Don't seem to have too much trouble with the bridge pu, but then again, I don't set it as low as the neck pu.

 

I really don't think you have too many options here. Obviously, you don't want to route. The guitar is too valuable.

 

I would do this:

 

Take a pair of heavy duty pliers and bend the screw end portion of the flange back 45 degrees so the flange is completely straight all the way down. Then, starting at the bottom of the flange, move the pliers up past the new crease plus about that same length-or longer. and rebend it out 45 degrees. Using a steel drill bit, a hole in the middle of the new extemded section.  

 

 

Hmmmm...

 

I think those holes are tapped, are they not?

[Kazwell]

Whoops, didn't have my coffee yet. 90 degrees not 45. Yes, they are tapped. It would be tricky  not only to get the new hole centered, but to get the screws to go in smoothly. However, the whole point would be that you could at least bend them back if you ever wanted to resell the pickup.

 

. Other than this, one could try mounting the pickup itself on top of another base assembly that has a more compatible bracket length. This would also be tricky because you do not want to use one that could interphere with the basic design of the pickup.

[PacerX]

Whoops, didn't have my coffee yet. 90 degrees not 45. Yes, they are tapped. It would be tricky  not only to get the new hole centered, but to get the screws to go in smoothly. However, the whole point would be that you could at least bend them back if you ever wanted to resell the pickup.

 

. Other than this, one could try mounting the pickup itself on top of another base assembly that has a more compatible bracket length. This would also be tricky because you do not want to use one that could interphere with the basic design of the pickup.

 

A tap shouldn't be too hard to find.  It'll just be a small one.  Running a small screw into an untapped hole might be a bit frustrating.  Heck, running the screws into tapped holes with the spring in there drives me nuts.

 

When I mounted up my SD JB and Jazz into my H-150, I didn't have any issues at all.  If I remember correctly, the brackets for the neck pickup had shallower offsets for the screw flanges.

 

Is it possible he has two bridge pickups?

[jamison162]

I emailed Duncan about this last night, no response.  They do have shallower brackets, but I don't really want to mess with this as it could alter the design of the pickup.

 

The pickups do say SH-55n and SH-55b, I measured the bridge but did not measure the neck.  Good point about the neck bracket possibly should be shallower.

 

However,

 

Got the bridge in, wasn't an issue like the neck, just barely enough breathing room where the mounting screw doesn't bottom out.

 

Now on the neck, I think I will measure from the bottom of the mounting ring and see how much depth I need for the remaining screw length and just drill recessed areas on the left and right of the cavity (1/2" diameter or whatever is needed so the flange will fit) just deep enough so the neck screws don't bottom out as well. That would be the quickest and easiest solution.

[PacerX]

I emailed Duncan about this last night, no response.  They do have shallower brackets, but I don't really want to mess with this as it could alter the design of the pickup.

 

The pickups do say SH-55n and SH-55b, I measured the bridge but did not measure the neck.  Good point about the neck bracket possibly should be shallower.

 

However,

 

Got the bridge in, wasn't an issue like the neck, just barely enough breathing room where the mounting screw doesn't bottom out.

 

Now on the neck, I think I will measure from the bottom of the mounting ring and see how much depth I need for the remaining screw length and just drill recessed areas on the left and right of the cavity (1/2" diameter or whatever is needed so the flange will fit) just deep enough so the neck screws don't bottom out as well. That would be the quickest and easiest solution.

 

Call Duncan.  Might be on hold for a little while, but they're pretty good about answering the phone.

 

Wait a second... is the flange hitting the bottom of the pocket, or is the screw hitting it?  The screw will extend past the flange after installation.

[jamison162]

Yeah, it's the screw length that I need to accomodate.  I could also get a slightly taller mounting ring and get more depth that way, but I like what I have and they look good and both match, hehehehe.  What's wrong with drilling 1/4" deep on either side of the cavity for the screws to clear; I figure that's all I really need is 1/4" at most.

[PacerX]

Yeah, it's the screw length that I need to accomodate.  I could also get a slightly taller mounting ring and get more depth that way, but I like what I have and they look good and both match, hehehehe.  What's wrong with drilling 1/4" deep on either side of the cavity for the screws to clear; I figure that's all I really need is 1/4" at most.

 

Bro, cut the screw, not the guitar, and don't worry about the mounting plate.

 

Thread the screw into the pickup flange, then cut a little bit of the screw length off (enough to allow it to fit) and hit the tip with a file to remove any burrs.

 

Then, carefully back the screw out.

 

As it backs out, it should clean the threads - but you have to be careful.

 

The other way to do it (the cleaner, safer, neater, more professional, etc... way) is to buy a die (as in a "Tap and Die") at the right size, thread it onto the screw past where you want to cut it, cut the screw to the length you need, take a file and clean up any burrs at the tip of the screw, and back the die off to clean the threads back up completely.

 

 

Alternately, if you aren't feeling frisky about whipping out a hacksaw next to a pickup - go buy a shorter screw at a hardware store.  It's going to be a pretty common size.

 

Personally, I'd cut cut the screw and use the die because:

 

1) I know I have the right size die somewhere.

 

2) It would take me longer to drive to the hardware store and find the right screw than it would to cut the one I have and clean it up.

 

 

 

Hey, did you try the old screws from the old pickups with the new pickup?  They tend to gravitate to a few common sizes, regardless of manufacturer.

[jamison162]

Shorter screws won't work because the flange is so long, the pickup would sit way too high.  So I guess the screw and flange are both the culprit here.

I don't know why these have deeper brackets.  Duncan's website has the dimensions of all they're pickups, the majority do have the smaller brackets.

Go figure.......must be something to do with the design.

[PacerX]

Shorter screws won't work because the flange is so long, the pickup would sit way too high.  So I guess the screw and flange are both the culprit here.

I don't know why these have deeper brackets.  Duncan's website has the dimensions of all they're pickups, the majority do have the smaller brackets.

Go figure.......must be something to do with the design.

 

Might be a (***GASP***) manufacturing error, give them a call.

[davesultra]

I had the same problem with my '98 H-150. The stock '59s wouldn't sit where I wanted them to. But to be honest, I wasn't really to big on the '59s and swapped them out for a pair of Pearly Gates, which have the shorter brackets. I imagine that Duncans' reasoning for the longer legs on the '59s & Seth Lovers is to be more "Vintage Correct". You could always special order them with the shorter brackets, which of course will always cost extra. My opinion is that the shorter legs wouldn't have any effect on the tone. Afterall it's about the winding & magnets more than the brackets (again, just my opinion). 

[GuitArtMan]

I had the same problem with my '98 H-150. The stock '59s wouldn't sit where I wanted them to. But to be honest, I wasn't really to big on the '59s and swapped them out for a pair of Pearly Gates, which have the shorter brackets. I imagine that Duncans' reasoning for the longer legs on the '59s & Seth Lovers is to be more "Vintage Correct". You could always special order them with the shorter brackets, which of course will always cost extra. My opinion is that the shorter legs wouldn't have any effect on the tone. Afterall it's about the winding & magnets more than the brackets (again, just my opinion). 

Hey it's a selling point:  "Vintage correct long mounting brackets for the true vintage tone."  ;D

[golferwave]

What you have is a guitar that originally came with Schaller golden 50's pickups. These are shallow pickups and for whatever reason Heritage didn't rout the cutouts all the way down to also accomodate Duncan or other aftermarket pickups.

[PacerX]

Hey it's a selling point:  "Vintage correct long mounting brackets for the true vintage tone."   ;D

 

Only if they were made on a vintage stamping press though...

[jamison162]

What you have is a guitar that originally came with Schaller golden 50's pickups. These are shallow pickups and for whatever reason Heritage didn't rout the cutouts all the way down to also accomodate Duncan or other aftermarket pickups.

 

Yeah, I figured that one out already.  Oh, the stock pickups are Golden Age sold by StewMac and I'm fairly certain they are not made by Schaller.  They sound good though.  In fact after trying out the Seth bridge last night, I'm gonna put the stock back in to compare.