3 pup question: Two Seths and a Phat Cat?

[MartyGrass]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to swap out the pups on my 157 triple HB. I've read some disparaging comments on Phat Cats but think the P90 tone mixed with Seths may sound great.

 

Any problems with a Phat Cat in the middle position?

 

Thanks.

[tulk1]

How does that work when you have three HB sized pickups and a 3 way switch? Is the middle pos all three? Or just the middle? The PhCt is basically a single coil, so there is the chance for hum. But I think it'd be a great combo.

[Patrick]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to swap out the pups on my 157 triple HB. I've read some disparaging comments on Phat Cats but think the P90 tone mixed with Seths may sound great.

 

Any problems with a Phat Cat in the middle position?

 

Thanks.

 

I have no problem with it . . . as long as they all look identical. As I remember it, doesn't the Phat Cat have the pole screws dead smack in the middle of the pup cover? HEY!! Now that I think about it . . that might work out even better!! With the bridge pup, the pole screws are facing towards the back of the guitar. The orientation of the screws on the neck pup is towards the front of the guitar. If the pole screws on the Phat Cat are in the center . . . then there is perfect aesthetic symmetry and balance. OK . . . I'm happy

[MartyGrass]

How does that work when you have three HB sized pickups and a 3 way switch? Is the middle pos all three? Or just the middle? The PhCt is basically a single coil, so there is the chance for hum. But I think it'd be a great combo.

 

 

I'm learning as I'm going.

 

My setup has the toggle switch exactly the same as in a two pup guitar. The volume pot for the middle pup blends adds or deletes the middle pup output.

 

For example, the toggle is down. I can adjust the bridge pup output through its volume pot. The neck pup is off. I add the middle pup output by dialing up its volume.

 

If I want only the middle pup, I turn the volume off of the others. It doesn't matter what the toggle is set at.

 

A disadvantage of my setup is that the only was to kill the middle pup is to turn its volume off.

 

The toggles can only affect the bridge and neck pups, just like in most guitars. Control of the middle pickup is solely through its volume control.

 

I don't know why a Phat Cat couldn't be blended with a couple of HBs.

[MartyGrass]

I have no problem with it . . . as long as they all look identical. As I remember it, doesn't the Phat Cat have the pole screws dead smack in the middle of the pup cover? HEY!! Now that I think about it . . that might work out even better!! With the bridge pup, the pole screws are facing towards the back of the guitar. The orientation of the screws on the neck pup is towards the front of the guitar. If the pole screws on the Phat Cat are in the center . . . then there is perfect aesthetic symmetry and balance. OK . . . I'm happy

 

 

Exactly.

 

Seth Lover positioned the screws on the outside extremes in a two HB guitar only for visual appeal. He would feel great joy to see a middle pup with the screws in the center of the gold!

 

To paraphrase Ricardo Montalban, "It's better to look good than sound good."

 

[Millennium Maestro]

Have you lifted the pickups yet? Do yourself a favor and find out if there are additional holes on the top, like if the Lawrences are aftermarket... If there are no extras, check the hole pattern with a loose pickup ring to see if there is a standard hole spacing.... if not:

 

1. you should concider having those rings rerouted to match you replacements in the lawrence Pups rings.

 

2. if I remember correctly, a coverless humbucker may fit in the rings un-modified.

 

Have fun using that quilt-top as a mod test dummy!! The benefits of owning a guitar and making it you OWN!

[NoNameBand]

How does that work when you have three HB sized pickups and a 3 way switch? Is the middle pos all three? Or just the middle? The PhCt is basically a single coil, so there is the chance for hum. But I think it'd be a great combo.

 

Typically, in a Three pup set-up with a Three way switch, the middle pup works in concert with the bridge pup. I'm no electronics guy but I would think in that configuration, that the PhatCat could be hum canceled by the bridge pup, much the same way a strat is in the second and fourth positions of the 5 way blade. If One of the coils are reverse polarity from the PhatCat, I think it could work. I would ask Seymour Duncan Customer Service.

 

1. Neck pup

2. middle pup

3. Middle & bridge with a push/pull volume to cut the middle if desired a bridge only.

As far as a cut-off for the middle pup, you could use a push/pull volume pot for the cutoff so it could be active in the middle position of the 3 way switch blended with the bridge as mentioned above, or if not blended with the bridge, singled out by itself and still use a push/pull volume pot for cutoff.

[MartyGrass]

Have you lifted the pickups yet? Do yourself a favor and find out if there are additional holes on the top, like if the Lawrences are aftermarket... If there are no extras, check the hole pattern with a loose pickup ring to see if there is a standard hole spacing.... if not:

 

1. you should concider having those rings rerouted to match you replacements in the lawrence Pups rings.

 

2. if I remember correctly, a coverless humbucker may fit in the rings un-modified.

 

Have fun using that quilt-top as a mod test dummy!! The benefits of owning a guitar and making it you OWN!

 

There are no extra holes. A Schaller ring seems to line up with the holes. I could have confirmed that with perfect certainty but I was too lazy to take off the Lawrence ring from the Lawrence pup and screw in the Schaller ring.

 

I'll check it out though.

 

Thanks, Guy.

[H]

Mark, if you buy Phat Cats as a pair, one will be RPRW (reverse polarity reverse wound) so they hum cancel when both are active.

 

There may be an optimum 'side' (RPRW or standard polarity and winding) of the Phat Cat pair to buy depending on the configuration you decide on. It also may make no difference at all

 

A good question to ask on the SD forum I think...

[MartyGrass]

Typically, in a Three pup set-up with a Three way switch, the middle pup works in concert with the bridge pup. I'm no electronics guy but I would think in that configuration, that the PhatCat could be hum canceled by the bridge pup, much the same way a strat is in the second and fourth positions of the 5 way blade. If One of the coils are reverse polarity from the PhatCat, I think it could work. I would ask Seymour Duncan Customer Service.

 

1. Neck pup

2. middle pup

3. Middle & bridge with a push/pull volume to cut the middle if desired a bridge only.

As far as a cut-off for the middle pup, you could use a push/pull volume pot for the cutoff so it could be active in the middle position of the 3 way switch blended with the bridge as mentioned above, or if not blended with the bridge, singled out by itself and still use a push/pull volume pot for cutoff.

 

 

I'll call SD. Thanks.

[MartyGrass]

Mark, if you buy Phat Cats as a pair, one will be RPRW (reverse polarity reverse wound) so they hum cancel when both are active.

 

There may be an optimum 'side' (RPRW or standard polarity and winding) of the Phat Cat pair to buy depending on the configuration you decide on. It also may make no difference at all

 

A good question to ask on the SD forum I think...

 

 

SD tech support suggested a Jazz for the neck, a Phat Cat in the middle, and a '59 in the bridge.

 

The 60 cycle hum may be reduced by the adjacent pup but don't count on it.

 

Phat Cats are no worse than Lollars with humming, according to this guy. He also felt that a bridge Phat Cat tends to be too bassy and the middle position is optimal.

 

Fortunately I have a gold bridge 59 hanging around.

 

I forgot to ask if I should have a 250K or 500K pot for the Phat Cat. Anyone know?

[NoNameBand]

SD tech support suggested a Jazz for the neck, a Phat Cat in the middle, and a '59 in the bridge.

 

The 60 cycle hum may be reduced by the adjacent pup but don't count on it.

 

Phat Cats are no worse than Lollars with humming, according to this guy. He also felt that a bridge Phat Cat tends to be too bassy and the middle position is optimal.

 

Fortunately I have a gold bridge 59 hanging around.

 

I forgot to ask if I should have a 250K or 500K pot for the Phat Cat. Anyone know?

 

I would suggest 250k or 300k.

[H]

500K pots and .047 caps for Phat Cats as specified on the SD website.

 

I've got .033 caps in mine but .047 is SD's recommendation.

[MartyGrass]

500K pots and .047 caps for Phat Cats as specified on the SD website.

 

I've got .033 caps in mine but .047 is SD's recommendation.

 

Howard,

 

Did you try the .047? Why are you such a rebel?

[mars_hall]

I would think any way of working it, normal or RWRP Phat Cats, the coil is going to be out of phase with either the bridge or neck pickup, depending on the Phat Cats version used. An out-phase sound might be cool.

 

However, the magnet can be correct as long as you know the orientation of the original HBs and get the Phat Cat that continues the alternating pole trend pattern.

 

i.e. seen from edge endview (drawing sucks, but think of rectangles)

____ ____ ____

|____| |____| |____|

N-S n-s N-S

59 PC Jz

[big bob]

Typically, in a Three pup set-up with a Three way switch, the middle pup works in concert with the bridge pup. I'm no electronics guy but I would think in that configuration, that the PhatCat could be hum canceled by the bridge pup, much the same way a strat is in the second and fourth positions of the 5 way blade. If One of the coils are reverse polarity from the PhatCat, I think it could work. I would ask Seymour Duncan Customer Service.

 

1. Neck pup

2. middle pup

3. Middle & bridge with a push/pull volume to cut the middle if desired a bridge only.

As far as a cut-off for the middle pup, you could use a push/pull volume pot for the cutoff so it could be active in the middle position of the 3 way switch blended with the bridge as mentioned above, or if not blended with the bridge, singled out by itself and still use a push/pull volume pot for cutoff.

 

This is a great set up and easy to do

set the bridge and neck up like a 150 ie with the three way toggle

neck

neck/bridge

bridge

then put the mid pup on a push pull for on and off. of course you will need a master volume if you do this.

I have my 150 custom set this way and it works great and is easy to remember what is what.

I plan to set my 170 up this way when I have a chance.

[NoNameBand]

This is a great set up and easy to do

set the bridge and neck up like a 150 ie with the three way toggle

neck

neck/bridge

bridge

then put the mid pup on a push pull for on and off. of course you will need a master volume if you do this.

I have my 150 custom set this way and it works great and is easy to remember what is what.

I plan to set my 170 up this way when I have a chance.

 

Thats what I said. Just kidding. I think you said what I wanted to say. Except, I don't think you need a separate volume for the middle pup. I think it can be on the bridge or neck volume.

[H]

Did you try the .047? Why are you such a rebel?

Yes. I had some .022s (the original Heritage yellow cylinders) in there too and didn't like those either.

 

I settled on the .033s just to be different, contrary, windswept and interesting. I lead a very dull life and having that as a conversation piece will liven things up in a multitude of social situations

[MartyGrass]

Yes. I had some .022s (the original Heritage yellow cylinders) in there too and didn't like those either.

 

I settled on the .033s just to be different, contrary, windswept and interesting. I lead a very dull life and having that as a conversation piece will liven things up in a multitude of social situations

 

 

I see. Mr. Gotta B. Different.

 

So how would you compare the sounds?

 

BTW, show a little mercy on your prince. He hasn't done anything (ever). Sure, "off with his head" sounds like a keen idea when you're in a worked up mob. But someone will have to clean up the mess afterward.

[MartyGrass]

This is a great set up and easy to do

set the bridge and neck up like a 150 ie with the three way toggle

neck

neck/bridge

bridge

then put the mid pup on a push pull for on and off. of course you will need a master volume if you do this.

I have my 150 custom set this way and it works great and is easy to remember what is what.

I plan to set my 170 up this way when I have a chance.

 

 

I don't follow. Why do you need a master volume pot? Right now I have a master tone and three volumes.

[big bob]

Thats what I said. Just kidding. I think you said what I wanted to say. Except, I don't think you need a separate volume for the middle pup. I think it can be on the bridge or neck volume.

Not quite the mid is on a push pull and not linked to the bridge. mid can be added to any normal H 150 setting by pulling the push pull on.

[big bob]

I don't follow. Why do you need a master volume pot? Right now I have a master tone and three volumes.

Sorry Mark my bad. My 150 only has three knobs. so one had to be a master volume. the other two tone. with four knobs you could do a master tone + three volume.

[MartyGrass]

Sorry Mark my bad. My 150 only has three knobs. so one had to be a master volume. the other two tone. with four knobs you could do a master tone + three volume.

 

 

Thank you, sir.

[H]

I see. Mr. Gotta B. Different.

So how would you compare the sounds?

LOL

 

I covered the cap change-out and the sounds they made in a couple of threads about a month ago. Tone is a subjective thing, isn't it? I just knew when I played it with .033s that it sounded good to me - hard to explain rationally.

 

Hi, I'm H and I'm a soldering addict...

[NoNameBand]

I don't follow. Why do you need a master volume pot? Right now I have a master tone and three volumes.

 

To my knowledge, most Three pup guitars use the Bridge pup Volume for the Middle pup as well. This could be the Push/Pull control that would control the volume for both the Middle and Bridge pup. This would give you the Standard pickup variations of a Two pup guitar with the Middle being in or out based on the Push/Pull instead of the 3 way switch. If this is not satisfactory, as mentioned earlier, you could replace the Neck Tone pot with the Push/Pull Volume pot for individual volume control over the Middle pup. It's rare that One needs additional tone roll-off for the neck pup. You can also use the remaining Tone pot for both (Neck/Bridge leaving the Middle open)or all three pups. You could also leave the Middle and Neck open with No tone pot.