Sweeeeet overdrive!

[les paulverizer]

I must confess; I'm a TONE and OVERDRIVE (boxes) junkie! 8)

Gotta admit it, the two are an orgasmic combination

Even some jazz players use some kinda overdrive in order to make their sound more "vocal", more expressive, and recordin' drums, acoustic guitar or vocal parts through a valve compressor (or a modellin' of one) every producer agrees it will add an infinitesimal amount of distortion/overdrive that will add "warmth" to the part The final juicy results are heard on nearly every "classic" recordin', some so classic that defy gravity! :-*

My pedalboard has got to be one of the simplest around, so simple that sometimes I don't even use it at all but I gotta plug into 1 Overdrive unit before I get to my amp, which has to be behind me (of course!) but slightly to my left (I know, I'm fussy but what the heck, I wouldn't play Heritage if I wasn't! ;D)

I went through various boxes, TS808, Marshall Bluesbreaker, a very cheap & very underrated great soundin' made in Taiwan DS1, but my final stop now for the last few months has been a Fulltone Fulldrive 2, a unit veeeeeeery hard to beat, in terms of hiss, response, versatility,....it's a "grinbringer" no problem! ;D ;D ;D

Any thoughts?

What are y'all using?

 

LONG LIVE THAT SWEEEEEEET JUICY GRIND!  8)

[squawken]

I have only been using a Boss GE-7 which helps on certain tones.  I have ordered a Keeley modded Boss SD-1 which I can't wait to come in!  I tried on once, overdriving the clean channel, and it was pretty sweet.

[doggy1972]

I use a really cheep and nasty plastic TS9 clone (I did my research) Its sounds fantastic. I use it as a general OD or a boost with a compressor for my Strat. Ive tried it next to my friends TS and you would sware they were the same pedal. The real TS had a bit more gain when dimed but, I dont use it like that anyway. You can get a metal version by a company called Daphon.

OD.jpg

OD.jpg_thumb

[jacques]

I hartily agree on your choice of the Fulldrive2, LPverizer!

The best way to determine the quality of these overdrives is the same technique you can use for an amp: how does it respond to your fingers? Like a good amp a good overdrive allows you to sound almost clean if you gently play the strings and starts to sing when you push harder ON THE GUITAR. Just try those lovely crunchy arpeggios of the kind the Beatles used on Abbey Road ('I want you', 'You never give me your money') or George Harrison on Creams 'Badge'. When played gently you actually hear the notes of the arpeggio instead of one messy overdriven chaos.

[les paulverizer]

I hartily agree on your choice of the Fulldrive2, LPverizer!

The best way to determine the quality of these overdrives is the same technique you can use for an amp: how does it respond to your fingers? Like a good amp a good overdrive allows you to sound almost clean if you gently play the strings and starts to sing when you push harder ON THE GUITAR. Just try those lovely crunchy arpeggios of the kind the Beatles used on Abbey Road ('I want you', 'You never give me your money') or George Harrison on Creams 'Badge'. When played gently you actually hear the notes of the arpeggio instead of one messy overdriven chaos.

 

You're absolutely right Jacques, I've always only followed my instincts (don't even think, shut up and play yer guitar!) but come to think of it , it does allow me to go from whisper through light Harrison/Page crunch to scream just by usin' my fingers and the volume's on the guitar , that's probably why I never got along with channel switchin' amp's. >

It does require some kinda headroom and you to play at a certain volume tough, but I've personally never had a problem with it; only people walkin' over to my side of the stage.....dunno why..... ??? LOL

[Kuz]

Fulltone Fulldrive 2, original Ts9 (from late 80s ?), HAO rustdrive (best plexi sound available) and my latest T.C. Electronics Vintage distortion (which really doesn't sound like a pedal at all)

[111518]

I'm a long-time FD II user and big fan.  I have the blue one; they seem to periodically change colors.  I have several channel switching amps, and find that I am more likely to use the FD to add a touch of overdrive or boost than to switch channels.  The FD is very controllable, touch sensitive, has two stages, predictable ...just a cool toy and an important part of my rig. 

 

Has anybody tried the new version with the FET option?  ... no, wait, don't answer.  If somebody says it is Dumble-ish, I'll have to go buy one.

[GuitArtMan]

I am an overdrive Junkey.  This is from memory, and a couple might slip into the distortion area:

BJF Mighty Blue - One of a kind two channel Baby Blue - this would be my desert Island OD

Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive - I use this mainly for Crunch rhthms

Vox Valve Tone - Another killer crunch rhythm od

Menatone Blue Collar - I just love this pedal - another posibilty for the desert island OD

Lovepedal Eternity - Went straight onto the pedal board and hasn't been bumped

Reverend DriveTrain II - A killer OD hailing from the Tubescreamer side of the universe

Visual Sound Jekyll and Hyde - The Jekyll side is a great TS808 clone, the Hyde side is sonic mayhem!

AnalogMan King Of Tone - Just get on the list.

Paul Cochrane Timmy - Yes, it is as good as they say.

Hermida Zendrive - Ommmmmm...

Maxon OD820 - Sleeper pedal.  Some claim it to be a Klon clone.  Sounds muchbetter than the Klon as a standalone OD.  Mayble not quite as transparent of clean boost.

Menatone Working Mans Blues - Can you say "JTM45 in a box"?  This thing into my Marshall 50 watt can cop Clapton Cream era tones or Angus Young tones all day long!

Menatone King of the Britains - These go to 11.  From Wide open Plexi to over the top modified Marshall, it'a all in there.

Menatone Top Boost in a Can - Can you say "AC30" in a box?

[JohnCovach]

I use the Fulltone as well (I have the blue one that's not the newer mosfet design).  I use a Rocktron rack unit for my echoes, reverbs, and some chorus effects and one trick I like is to use the preamp of the rack unit to drive the input stage of the amp a little harder.  I goose the signal and when it hits the AC-30, the amp seems more responsive.  When I hit the Fulltone, it sounds better as well.  Since I went with this set-up a couple of years ago, I've gotten more compliments on my sound that I can count. Most people just say that the AC-30 sounds great, but at the stage volumes we use, the AC-30 is usually just barely on.

[jacques]

111518:

I A-B'd the Mosfet Fulldrive with my own (blue Fulldrive2).

Like all of us I wondered if it might take me any further in overdrive territory with lustrous and everlasting guitar singing.

I can tell you: it did not.

All you get with the mosfet is a little more saturation and it takes you further away from your 'original' tone, the one I'd like to preserve.

My opinion on any pedal is: how much Heritage is left after I push the button?

 

LPverizer:

Funny to read here and there in these posts about the same 'problem' I always have with amp overdrive. Recently I swapped my old Fender Dual Showman with large Celestion speaker cabinets for a Carvin Legacy combo. (so now I can throw my gear in the back of my car.) As many of you may know, a Fender is usually not easily overdriven and this new Legacy (as developed by Steve Vai) is actually made for it. But it turns out I just don't like that certain instability, the feeling of messing things up inside those tubes, the deafening and uncontrollable loudness of the overdrive channel. Earlier in my amplifier explorations I had the same experience with a Mesa Boogie. Thank God the Legacy has a great clean channel and the Fulldrive makes it sing exactly the way I want it to.

[les paulverizer]

111518:

I A-B'd the Mosfet Fulldrive with my own (blue Fulldrive2).

Like all of us I wondered if it might take me any further in overdrive territory with lustrous and everlasting guitar singing.

I can tell you: it did not.

All you get with the mosfet is a little more saturation and it takes you further away from your 'original' tone, the one I'd like to preserve.

My opinion on any pedal is: how much Heritage is left after I push the button?

 

LPverizer:

Funny to read here and there in these posts about the same 'problem' I always have with amp overdrive. Recently I swapped my old Fender Dual Showman with large Celestion speaker cabinets for a Carvin Legacy combo. (so now I can throw my gear in the back of my car.) As many of you may know, a Fender is usually not easily overdriven and this new Legacy (as developed by Steve Vai) is actually made for it. But it turns out I just don't like that certain instability, the feeling of messing things up inside those tubes, the deafening and uncontrollable loudness of the overdrive channel. Earlier in my amplifier explorations I had the same experience with a Mesa Boogie. Thank God the Legacy has a great clean channel and the Fulldrive makes it sing exactly the way I want it to.

 

Jacques, I know e-x-a-c-t-l-y where ya  comin' from; a lot of "modern" or what I call AMB's (After Mesa Boogie, geddit?) amp's have too much gain for their own good, they seem to base the overdrive too much on the pre-amp stage, which is only good up to a point, after which ya need the power amp to take over and make the whole thing scream, not buzz like a wasp with birth pangs!... :-

That's where the "the guitar's too loud" originates from; people in general, and sometimes mediocre would-be-sound-engineers > don't get it that we need a certain amount of volume in order to get the power amp cookin' and the necessary headroom to clean up when needed: I hate it when the schmuck at the mix comes up with the immortal line "turn down from the amp, I'll raise your volume from here, don't worry, you'll be heard....."; I mean, with unemployement and stuff did they reeeeally have to give that guy the job....? ???

Ok, there is a limit, some guys are actually way too loud, but I think ya get my point.

Now, with master volume's and an exquisite never seen before choice of fuzz/overdrive boxes the only thing is to mix those elements and hit the right balance/sweet spot between 'em, which inevitably won't fail to yeld results of o-r-g-a-s-m-i-c proportions! :P

I think the...secret...is not to go overboard with it; all the awesomest ROCK TONE's we know and Love, if ya reeeeally l-i-s-t-e-n to it, are actually...juicy, intense, screamin', mean, inspirin', obviously overdriven, but almost never overdistorted, unless it's a specific part that requires that specific sound.

Some "today" bands base their whole sound on that Triple Rectifier thing, but we know why...; only thing is that "today" is but tomorrow's yesterday, unlike "timeless", but that applies to a lot of things, not only music. 8)

I have to admit that I had a session where I was satisfied with sound , but then the producer asked/advised/told me to back down the distortion >; I did and, even though it became a little harder to nail the part, suddenly, when they played it back I was awesome, what was a good sound before now was a dreamTONE! ;D I'll never forget it...

Boogies's, Carvin Legacy's and all that kinda stuff they are all marvellous pieces of engineering and the people behind 'em are top pro's at the top of their game, they k-n-o-w what they're doin', only is not so instinctive to get a certain TONE outta them: they're not my first choice but, regardless, my approach is to go to the lead channel (it's always juicier!!!!), balance the master and pre-amp volumes to get an awesome crunch sound that I could still use for my leads, and then push it harder with a box, in my case the Fulltone Fulldrive 2 8)

[slider313]

I used an '84 TS9 for years, which has the 808 mod, and it's a great sounding OD.

I was, however, on the AnalogMan list for the King of tone IV. Since receiving the KOT IV I have used the TS9 once and have no desire to use it again. I play mostly older tube amps; BFDR, BFVR, brown Super, a tweed bandmaster clone and my recent purchase, a Goodsell Super 17 MK2. The KOT sounds great with every amp I've used it with.

[Gitfiddler]

For years I've used an Ibanez Turbo Tube Screamer:  3 separate drive modes, including a spot-on TS9 overdrive tone. 

 

...Or I just use one of the two drive channels of the Mesa MkIV and leave all of the pedals at home.  There's enough EQ variability in that amp to get just about any tone one wants...but it takes time to learn how to tweak all of those knobs. 

[Mikenov]

So glad you made this post. I just bought the pre-Mosfet version of the FD2. I really never spent too much time messing with pedals until recently. I was using a marshall Jackhammer to color the tone of my Super reverb when I needed an extra boost. about a month ago at a jam, I was playing with another guitarist with a Mesa but he had another pedal in front of it. It was the FD2 . He cut through like crazy. But his notes were completely clear. At first I thought it was a volume thing but that really wasn't it. Then I thought it was a Mesa thing. So I went to this really high end guitar shop in highland Park, IL. I wanted to try the new Express series. In the process I starting checking out their Maxon OD's. Then the salesman brought me the Fulltone 2 . That was the tone. Perfect coloring of my clean sound. In compcut mode I have the perfect 2 stage OD for rythm and leads. Its just awesome and like someone else said, I litterally was grinning from ear to ear after hearing it. That was going to be my new sound. One negative I have noticed is the other 2 modes besides compcut, the boost really doesn't do much. I have only had this thing for a little while so maybe I haven't figured it out. Anyone else have that same experience?

[Dick Seacup]

So, help an ignorant n00b out here...when you use these overdrive pedals, do you run them into a clean, loud amp?  I mean, does all of the crunch/drive/distortion come from the pedal and the amplification comes from the, uh, amp?  Or, does the pedal just drive the amp even farther into distortion?

[Mikenov]

Take my opinion with a grain of salt b/c I am clueless when it comes to electronics but...

It boosts the signal and shapes your tone before hitting the amp. I find this pedal really boosts the mids on my signal. When I run it into my clean channel it boosts my volume a ton too. I would say you get some drive from the pedal but it also helps you get your amp into the sweet spot quicker too. The greatest part of the pedal is that it overdrives without turning everything to mud. Every note is still clear as a bell if you want it to be . It really reminds me of the tone you get from a cranked fender amp. Chimey, clear with just that hint of overdrive. But you don't have to be completely cranked to get there. 

[111518]

Dick:

I'll take a shot at an explanation...

 

I think different people use these pedals in different ways.  You CAN run them into a clean amp, taking care not to overdrive the input stage of the amp, and then you have the situation you describe ... all the "effect" comes from the pedal, made louder by the amp.  I think this is probably more the case when people use digital effects that are sending out a digitally modified signal. 

 

Analogue overdrive devices and tube amps can interact in a pretty complex but musical way.  What I try to find is that zone on my amp (volume/master volume and other settings --everything is incredibly tweakable today) of the clean channel of my tube amp where I can, with my volume pedal full on and with a strong pick attack, get the beginnings of overdrive, or back down and have a good clean tone with volume.  Then, by adding the fulldrive, which is a fully analogue device, I can hit that first stage of my amp with more signal and drive it further into overdrive, and then the boost sends it further still.  Basically the "effect" is coming/can come from two places ... distortion (I don't mean fuzz, but transformation of clean signal) introduced by overdriving components within the pedal, and distortion introduced by overdriving the input stage of the amp.  The fulldrive lets you control how hard you are hitting your amp, and how much distortion the pedal itself is introducing.  You can't change the settings on the box easily on the fly, but with picking dynamics and volume you still control the input stage distortion, so you continue to have a lot of control over the sound the FD and amp together produce. 

 

What makes the fulldrive so cool, I think, is that it is tailored not to completely overwhelm the input stage of your amp and produce buzzy distortions there (unless you want it to), and its own "overdrive" is also, at least for most of its range, pretty subtle, so everything stays pretty musical and responsive, unlike a classic fuzztone that just takes over your sound. 

 

I'm not sure this makes any sense --not something I've ever tried to explain without an amp and guitar to demonstrate.  Others might do better. 

[les paulverizer]

Dick:

I'll take a shot at an explanation...

 

I think different people use these pedals in different ways.  You CAN run them into a clean amp, taking care not to overdrive the input stage of the amp, and then you have the situation you describe ... all the "effect" comes from the pedal, made louder by the amp.  I think this is probably more the case when people use digital effects that are sending out a digitally modified signal.   

 

Analogue overdrive devices and tube amps can interact in a pretty complex but musical way.  What I try to find is that zone on my amp (volume/master volume and other settings --everything is incredibly tweakable today) of the clean channel of my tube amp where I can, with my volume pedal full on and with a strong pick attack, get the beginnings of overdrive, or back down and have a good clean tone with volume.  Then, by adding the fulldrive, which is a fully analogue device, I can hit that first stage of my amp with more signal and drive it further into overdrive, and then the boost sends it further still.  Basically the "effect" is coming/can come from two places ... distortion (I don't mean fuzz, but transformation of clean signal) introduced by overdriving components within the pedal, and distortion introduced by overdriving the input stage of the amp.  The fulldrive lets you control how hard you are hitting your amp, and how much distortion the pedal itself is introducing.  You can't change the settings on the box easily on the fly, but with picking dynamics and volume you still control the input stage distortion, so you continue to have a lot of control over the sound the FD and amp together produce.   

 

What makes the fulldrive so cool, I think, is that it is tailored not to completely overwhelm the input stage of your amp and produce buzzy distortions there (unless you want it to), and its own "overdrive" is also, at least for most of its range, pretty subtle, so everything stays pretty musical and responsive, unlike a classic fuzztone that just takes over your sound. 

 

I'm not sure this makes any sense --not something I've ever tried to explain without an amp and guitar to demonstrate.  Others might do better. 

 

Yeah 111518, that's exactly what the Fulldrive2 does, I'm not sayin' it puts everything else out of business (my late 70's 808 and my Boss DS1 are both "grinbringers" for sure... ;D ;D) but I do have the same dynamic control as when I play an acoustic guitar; set the gear up, amp 'n' stuff, and control every little nuance with my fingers and the volume's on the guitar 8)

It's very liberatin' actually...

I have the "old" model and, unlike the guy a coupla posts ago, I never set it on "comp-cut" cuz but on the "vintage" position cuz it feels a little more....organic, to my ears anyway

D' like to try some more of this boutique stuff though...

Let's face it, we've never had it so good; people go on about the ooooooooooold vintage stuff, and they/we have every reason to, but some of the stuff available now in terms of guitars (Heritage, Hamer, Taylor, Huber, Tyler, Tom Anderson, Custom Shop Gibson/PRS/Fender,....)/amp's/effects, it's so unbelievably good as to defy gravity;.....and the choice...awesome!!!!  :P

It's good to be a guitar player, yes sir...

[Kazwell]

Some great replies in this post. Here is a really good read concerning boosting amplifiers:

 

http://www.legendarytones.com/boostingmystery.html

 

It goes into extensive detail -particularly the evolution of Marshall amps, but focuses on how the various stages of an amp work together and how external boosters play a part in defining rock guitar sound through the years.

 

Actually, there are many great articles that cover a great deal of topics regarding tone.

 

http://www.legendarytones.com/

 

Take some time to go through it. Some great content for sure.

 

Enjoy

[jacques]

@ Mikenov: The "comp-cut" setting makes the total sound much louder and I never use it either. I can understand why you feel the other two settings on the Fulldrive2 don't mean much, but that is because they don't boost the volume and may sound a bit meaningless in comparison. But I find the other settings much more subtle in their overdrive quality and I can only advise you, like LPverizer, to give them another try. Just turn up the sound of your amp a little to compensate for that compcut volume boost.

 

@Dick: it maybe depends on your total "playing needs" whether you use an overdrive pedal combined with a clean amp channel or on an already overdriven amp sound. If you always have a crunchy sound you might use the overdrive amp channel, but if you switch between say clean jazz chords and hot fusion guitar licks you need the clean channel.

 

Thanks for that link Neil!

[Mikenov]

jacques,

I will give it a try. I have only had this thing for a couple of weeks so there is still allot I need to explore with it. As a matter of fact, I had the pedal board out yesterday and started playing with the FM and vintage sections. Fun! They had allot more drive to them. But again, the boost didn't really do much.

BTW, the wife took a look at it and asked

" whats this fulldrive thing? I have never seen that before..."

Uh... no honey, I have had that one forever.

She didn't buy it. busted. 

the "this old thing??" argument did not work this time.

[Dick Seacup]

... if you switch between say clean jazz chords and hot fusion guitar licks you need the clean channel.

 

What if I alternate between clams and muffed lines?    Thanks for the input (no pun intended).  Maybe I'll pick up a cheap-ish pedal to play with.

[Robbie G]

To get an overdriven and rock tone, I've recently made some minor changes that nevertheless brought me even more versatility and tone!

1. I changed the V1 pre amp 12AX7EH tube for a NOS American Raytheon 5814 (= military spec 12AU7) tube. This action tamed down my amp (Koch Multitone). It gives the amp more headroom (strange but true) and tonal variety in the pre amp section, since it's not pushed that hard like the stronger 12AX7 does.  The tone knobs are all set around 12 o' clock.

2. To spice things up when necessary (Hey, I'm a rock player  ;D ), I use a simple Made in Taiwan Boss DS-1. As on the amp, I have all the knobs set around 12 o' clock, so no extreme settings here, just the same as on my amp and it just gives that extra bite I need sometimes. Works for me!

3. Another brilliant piece of equipment I use is the (Made in Germany) Silvermachine Wah pedal. If you've once played wit this baby, all other wah pedals will become obsolete!

In the tonal division, we're talking about now, this pedal has the option to fix the sound with a footswitchable knob (Money for Nothing - Dire Straits, Gimme All your Lovin - ZZ Top) this filtered sound can really do some nice things to boh overdriven an clean sounds.

[les paulverizer]

Some great replies in this post. Here is a really good read concerning boosting amplifiers:

 

http://www.legendarytones.com/boostingmystery.html

 

It goes into extensive detail -particularly the evolution of Marshall amps, but focuses on how the various stages of an amp work together and how external boosters play a part in defining rock guitar sound through the years.

 

Actually, there are many great articles that cover a great deal of topics regarding tone.

 

http://www.legendarytones.com/

 

Take some time to go through it. Some great content for sure.Enjoy

 

Kazwell, ya're a Star, no question about it! 8)

I've come across that "legendarytones" site before, but I forgot about all the juicy information that's available there; the story about the guy callin' Seymour Duncan and how he got the "Van Halen" pick-up just killed me! (call their Custom Shop and they'll get you one noooo problem, and if that ain't cool I dunno what it is!))

I strongly recommend that site to anybody on this Forum; after all, regardless of the type (or types) of music we all enjoy play, GoodMusic is GoodMusic & Tone is Tone, right?

Anyway, goin' back to the main topic; I might have a chance to get an Expandora (cheap which is coll...) but I'd have to buy it, it'd be nearly impossible for me to try it .

Has anybody here ever wailed through one?