New member and also proud new owner of a H-150 CM -some questions, comments etc.

[Kazwell]

As I stated I am new to the site, and have recently purchased a H-150 CM off of E-Bay after hearing some great things about them from a local shop here in St. Louis.

Many of you probably saw the guitar- it was sold out of a shop in Las Vegas- Translucent Amber-I picked it up for 1299 plus 40 dollars shipping.

Evidently no one bid against me. Guess the finish isn't the most popular. I have been playing for over thirty years. and have owned my share of quality gutars with just about every fisnish you can name with the exception of blue. The more natural looking finishes seem to appeal to me more. I really like the light sunburst Heritage does, however, I don't like the shade of cherry red they used on the backs of them. I guess, when it comes down to it, as a player, you spend more time looking down at the neck and top of the guitar than the front anyway, so I feel it is just as or more important even to be satisfied with the finish they use on the back of a guitar.

At first I was interested in the Gibson Les Paul VOS 1960, but was shocked to hear Gibson uses "pearloid" on their fret markers. Own a refurb  Gibson 1959 ES 355 (not orginal pickups, or wiring, Bigsby replaced with stop tailpiece so it's value currently is ironically around the same price of a new Custom shop version.) I know as a fact the neck had real MOP markers. Still can't understand how they get away with saying these are original specs on the re-issued models when they use different materials.

One thing I noticed when recieving my new H-150 was that the MOP work seemed a little sloppy. Maybe I am being picky, but one major reason I went with Heritage over Gibson was the fact that they stick to the real specs (with exception of shape due to legal reasons). Wolf music seems to really push the MOP fact on there website I noticed, so it isn't just a minor detail.

Anyway, I hope to send a picture soon, although it may be hard to pick up, but on the third fret on one of the corners, it appears that there is a blemish in shell. When you turn the guitar slightly, the blemish that appears dark with shine in the light. Not sure if this is a crack or just, as I said, a blemish.

This is one of the problems with online buying is things like this can get past the camera lens. Not sure if I would have noticed it at first in a shop either though. Hard to say.

Has anyone here ever experienced or heard this problem-if it even is one. One thing that concerned me was that this could be an indication that this guitar was actually a factory second if in fact Heritage even has such a thing. The size of the "blemish" is approx the size of one of the screw heads on the truss rod cover plus maybe 30-40%.

Also on the tenth fret, the MOP block has a stained glass look. Although umblemished, it different from all the rest of the blocks on the fretboard.

 

Sorry to seem so picky, but the quality of the guitar as a whole is so high, that I was taken back by this. Also, does mayone know if they can repalce these block in the factory-(for a charge I presume-if they do it at all.) I know people are like "call them up and ask them" but with everything going on over there, I really hate to bother them on such a minor issue.

 

I used a heavier guage string than most LP type guitar players- 11 to 50 gauge (I use DR strings and LOVE them!!). Is there anybody on here who uses this gauge and if so, how is your neck set up? I had to bow the neck a bit to get the action to feel right. Lost some sustain through. I know it is a give and take when it comes to giving up sustain for lighter feel.

 

Also, I have a set of Seth Lovers coming today in fact, and I am ready to replace them with the existing set of Seymour Duncan 59s. I know these are good all around pickups, but I feel with  the sound this guitar produced acoustically, it deserves better pickups.

 

Thanks fior listening to my rant and will add a new posting as as soon I get a chance to install and play the new hSeth Lover set.

 

Later

 

Kazwell

[PacerX]

"One thing I noticed when recieving my new H-150 was that the MOP work seemed a little sloppy...  The size of the "blemish" is approx the size of one of the screw heads on the truss rod cover plus maybe 30-40%.  Also on the tenth fret, the MOP block has a stained glass look."

 

I think you may be complaing about something that makes natural materials unique - inherent variability.

 

If it were an engineered material, it would be completely consistent, kind of like the vinyl in your car.  The grain is perfect.

Leather, on the other hand, has natural variability in it.  It's got marks from scars and such.

 

Nobody mistakes vinyl as being a better material than leather due to the natural variability.

 

 

Another way to think about this is the grain in wood...

 

Woodgrain is not spotlessly consistent.  It has wiggles and zigs and zags, but our eyes LIKE that sort of thing.  It's still a pattern, but it's a loose pattern, and therefore more pleasing to our eyes.

 

To my eye, these variations in pattern are things of beauty - kind of like Marilyn Monroe's dimple.  They give the instrument uniqueness and character.

 

[glow=red,2,300]This is my guitar, there are many like it, but this one is mine.

My guitar without me is useless. Without my guitar, I am useless.[/glow]

 

 

 

Regarding action, without actually seeing the instrument, it is difficult to determine if your action is exceptionally high or not.

 

I use 10-46's on mine, but tune to "D" on the 6th string and therefore replace the standard .046 with a .050.  The action isn't as low as that on my Kramers, but it still pretty good - and I'm a low action Nazi.

[AnH555]

Welcome Kazwell. Hope you'll post a picture of the inlay you describe. One of the first things I noticed on my Heritage is there are markings on the wood that if it were pine I'd say a pine beetle in the tree did it. One of my inlays has a black blotch on it. So I took a step back and considered the guitar as a whole. That led me to conclude that it was an astonishingly good guitar, and at it's price there is no competition. To me warranties and dealer support are meaningless. It's a "what you see is what you get, take it or leave it" proposition. I got tired of looking at expensive new guitars with the attitude of "Is it repairable?" An outside observer must think it odd that a musician needs to send his new guitar to his mechanic to make it playable, that for all that money it's not even going to stay in tune!

  On the other hand, there are companies that address these issues. They offer an unbound, dot-neck plank with a couple P-90's on it for the price of a good used car, for example. But it's flawless. No deal, Howie! That's where Heritage got my attention. They seem to be people who are out to make an honest living by offering genuinely good guitars at a reasonable price. So I bought an H555. The most noticeable flaw is that there is lint from a rag under the finish on the neck binding. I have no doubt they are striving to improve on quality, my concern is what impact that may have on future prices. I love my Heritage. I could spend twice the money and not get a guitar this good. It's not for everyone, but neither is Fender or PRS or anyone else.

  So there's my rant. It's good to hear you talking objectively about your H150. Hopefully, this is the right place to do just that.

[Thundersteel]

ALL my Heritages have what I would call minor finishing flaws. Does it affect the sound or playability? No. Disappointing? Slightly. But I suppose that's what you get for a handmade guitar.

[CrustHunter]

Nothing is perfect including the perfect fool, both my Heritages have very minor "flaws" but I guess its down to the individual and the power of their magnifying glass and how picky you are, both guitars are awesome in every respect and like others owners I just consider it individuality, just like us humans all slightly different!

[Gitfiddler]

"To my eye, these variations in pattern are things of beauty - kind of like Marilyn Monroe's dimple.  They give the instrument uniqueness and character."  Pacer X

 

Well said, Pacer X. 

 

Here are more examples of uniqueness and character.

 

http://www.marilynmonroe.com/about/photos/bw_photos.htm

[GuitArtMan]

What you are calling an imperfection I would value!  I want a three dimensional effect to my M.O.P. inlays, just like I want a 3D effect to my flame maple.  I want to see some color in my inlays as well, not just white.  I had two Tom Anderson Drop Tops, both with gorgeous figured maple tops.  One was very 3 dimensional, the figure seemed to move when you looked at it from different angles, I like that!  The other prety much looked to same from all angles, I didn't like that as much.

 

FYI Gibson has always used pearloid for the trapezoid linlays on the Les Pauls standards, etc. unless it was a custom order.  The LP Custom (block inlays) were M.O.P.

[Kazwell]

PacerX

 

I was kinda thinking the same thing. Just wanted to know generally if this is a standard thing. Maybe most are like this, and if so, then I can definately live with it.

[Kazwell]

While replying to PacerX, I see I got a host of replies. I am very overwhelmed and this is proof  I am in good company. As I stated in my reply, as long as this is somewhat common, no problem. Overall, this is still the finest guitar I ever owned (I now have 11 guitars- last time I counted ).

Was told the inlays in the 59 were real MOP-this is probably where I created this "standard" in my head of how the "old school" inlays were supposed to look like.

 

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

 

Only question now is "Can I really afford the next Heritage I will most likely buy in the not so far off future?"

[Thundersteel]

Only question now is "Can I really afford the next Heritage I will most likely buy in the not so far off future?"

 

Of course you can! It's only pennies per day! No, I am NOT a car salesman!

[GuitArtMan]

While replying to PacerX, I see I got a host of replies. I am very overwhelmed and this is proof  I am in good company. As I stated in my reply, as long as this is somewhat common, no problem. Overall, this is still the finest guitar I ever owned (I now have 11 guitars- last time I counted ).

Was told the inlays in the 59 were real MOP-this is probably where I created this "standard" in my head of how the "old school" inlays were supposed to look like.

 

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

 

Only question now is "Can I really afford the next Heritage I will most likely buy in the not so far off future?"

Nope, inlays in the real '59s are Mother of Toilet Seat.  That why you see many of them shrinking and lifting.

[Kazwell]

Correction.....My 59 is a 355 not an LP-the 355 has block inlays. So these are most likely MOP. I can see that the trapezoid inlays have to be much harder to carve out whichis why Gibson used plastic. Hard to believe that 59 Standard on E-Bay that was listed last year for 300K had PLASTIC inlays!!!!!! What a rip off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cryoman]

The trapezoids are not any harder to cut becaues of their shape....If fact there is probably a little more "give" in the precision required of the cuts on the curved portions (versus perfectly square cuts on the "custom" type inlays.)  MOP is nearly always cut with 'hands on' material either with a small hand saw or on an electric scroll saw.  I suppose PRS and others are cutting their bazillians of look alike MOP pieces via CNC mills....

 

I assume this is the way Gibson is cutting their acrylic.  I dislike my Gibson guitars soley because of acrylic trapezoids... what a pity.  I find it hard to believe that Gibson was using acrylic trapezoids in 1950's, but I've been wrong before....

 

As a side note, look at some of the luthier supply sites and get a feeling for the cost differential between real MOP and plastic for inlays.  The difference is very small, and it sickens me that to think how much incrementally more I would have paid to get the real thing....

 

Hurrah for Heritage. I think I'll buy an H-150 in celebration of real MOP trapezoid inlays....

 

Cheers,  Cryoman

[Dick Seacup]

...As a side note, look at some of the luthier supply sites and get a feeling for the cost differential between real MOP and plastic for inlays.  The difference is very small, and it sickens me that to think how much incrementally more I would have paid to get the real thing....

 

A few pennies her, a few pennies there and it starts adding up.  On the other hand, there's a famous Ray Kroc quote about cost cutters telling him to use 28 sesame seeds on the buns instead of 29 (or something like that) to save a penny per, but that over the course of all the buns used it'd save millions.  His answer was that, following that logic to its conclusion, he'd eventually have no sesame seeds, saving millions, but not have any customers either.

 

Somehow I thought that fit when I started typing it.  Now, not so sure...

[Cryoman]

I like the Ray Kroc story.  It really truly does come down to the dollar, doesn't it?  If Gibson is keeping their desired demand at the right profit margin despite of / with the plastic inlays, then their formula is currently the correct one.  I bought two of the suckers with plastic trapezoids and love everything about them BUT the plastic... Wish I had bought Heritage or others instead.  Damn.

 

Cryoman

[yoslate]

All of the above...a very entertaining read after a day in the salt mine!  Thanks fellas!  My two-cents....  Those marvelous seventeenth century Dutch and Flemish landscape painters, the guys who'd paint ships' rigging using brushes with one or two hairs, would intentionally paint a minor flaw into their work.  The idea was to avoid presuming to God's perfection.  I find both my Heritages pretty divine instruments.  

 

I daydream all of the time about taking delivery on my third, one I've custom spec'd.  Right now, I'd imagine the last thing I'll do with that one, once I get my hands on it, is inspect it with a magnifying glass for "imperfections."  Probably the best guitar I've ever owned, and I kick myself daily for ever getting rid of it, was a '52 goldtop that looked like it had been used as an all-purpose farm tool!  What I would give to plug that one in just once more....    

[Cryoman]

Yeah... my piece of dogshit 1973 Gibson SG-II was all I could afford to own and play when I was 13.  It was crap.  But, GAWD, I rocked and rolled it with my youngster's soul.  And in the local GC, there one sits today for $999.  Not worth 50 bucks, but what I would "pay" to have my old one back and crank that beast up one more time...

 

Cheers, Cryoman

[Sparky]

If its perfection ye be wantin'... man-made by hand ain't the way to be goin'. A CNC treated plank be what yer hankerin' fer.

 

Spark-ee

[Paul P]

It seems to me that it shouldn't be too hard to replace plastic inlays with real ones

made of MOP.  It would sure spruce up the look of a guitar.  I wonder how much

a luthier would charge for the work.

 

Paul P

[tulk1]

It seems to me that it shouldn't be too hard to replace plastic inlays with real ones

made of MOP.  It would sure spruce up the look of a guitar.  I wonder how much

a luthier would charge for the work.

 

Paul P

 

I'd think a ton 'o money. Figure they have to pull the frets, which means a refret, cut the patterns, inlay the MoP, then refinish the fret board to smooth it all out. Very time consuming.

[GuitArtMan]

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Inlay,_pearl/P...es.html#details

[Kazwell]

Needless to say most folks here seem to agree that the block inlay is a nice look although we would prefer that they are real and not plastic. Wonder why Heritage hollow and semi hollow bodies have to be custom ordered to get the block as opposed to the dot inlay? I will answer my own question now that they are focusing more time to the  quality of the rest of the guitar which requires more work than a solid body.

It's really just a psycological thing with me-I really like to see block inlays on any electric, but hate them on acoustic guitars.

 

If someone had the right tools, I would imagine you could set up a nice side business offering to add real MOP inlays to Gibson guitars. Ironically this would probably diminish the eventual vintage value-maybe not. Something to think about.