Plek Question

[Andy R]

Pacer, you are a very intelligent and very articulate man. I'm also impressed with your evangelical zeal- you make the Energizer Bunny look like a slacker!

 

Now, I'm no Luddite- I think the plek is great (especially since fret work has not been the strongest point of our beloved boys from Kzoo).

 

I think CNC machinery may be great for stamping out strat bodies, but ther's more to it than that. My experience with my vintage guitars has been that they are exceptional. I have a 59 strat that the Fword custom shop cloned for me. Same wood, same dimensions, same color  thin nitro, same electronics.  Totally different guitar in both sound and feel. It's a good guitar, even a really good guitar, but there is some intangible about the original that they couldn't quantize. Not too get too deep in the whole mystical hoodoo thing, but my handmade acoustic (CB guitars) is clearly on a totally different level than every Taylor I've seen. He hand builds them- well maybe not by your definition, because I have seen him use a saw- and they are consistently excellent. I've played 10 or 12 original D'Angelicos, and every one has been unique- and great. Now granted, you can't mass produce guitars like that, and not every old strat I've played has been great (although most were), but there's more to a guitar than fit and finish. And I still contend that the organic and inconsistent nature of wood itself makes it a poor candidate for hands off construction.

 

Now to find out why I'm wrong...

[AnH555]

Fascinating conversation. Homogenized is the word that comes to my mind when considering a CNC carved instrument. Play one H535 and you've played them all. The question seems to be - is that a good thing?

 

Around here local craftsman carve statues from logs with a chainsaw. A guy will carve an eagle grabbing a fish, for example. When it sells he carves another one just like it. Theoretically at least, logs could be fed into a CNC machine and this statue could be easily reproduced. But now it's a different product than even re-carving the same scene with the chainsaw.

 

The fact that Heritage binds their guitars with ABS plastic and uses a plek machine tells me they aren't just behind the times. If they opted for a CNC-made fretboard that would be fine with me, personally, as split block MOP inlays could be more affordable, in addition to the most accurate intonation and fretwork. But I don't think neck stability is a result of how a neck is machined. It's a matter of how the wood is selected and cured, etc. I've heard also that PRS is the best at this.

 

If only we could all drive over to our local Heritage dealer and hand pick the one that we like best.

 

Heritage stands apart, and it gives them their own place in the guitar market.  "We remain committed to crafting the finest handmade guitars available at any price...", and I find myself relieved to hear that they won't be homogenizing their guitars with CNC machinery.

[GuitArtMan]

Fascinating conversation. Homogenized is the word that comes to my mind when considering a CNC carved instrument. Play one H535 and you've played them all. The question seems to be - is that a good thing?

 

Around here local craftsman carve statues from logs with a chainsaw. A guy will carve an eagle grabbing a fish, for example. When it sells he carves another one just like it. Theoretically at least, logs could be fed into a CNC machine and this statue could be easily reproduced. But now it's a different product than even re-carving the same scene with the chainsaw.

 

The fact that Heritage binds their guitars with ABS plastic and uses a plek machine tells me they aren't just behind the times. If they opted for a CNC-made fretboard that would be fine with me, personally, as split block MOP inlays could be more affordable, in addition to the most accurate intonation and fretwork. But I don't think neck stability is a result of how a neck is machined. It's a matter of how the wood is selected and cured, etc. I've heard also that PRS is the best at this.

 

If only we could all drive over to our local Heritage dealer and hand pick the one that we like best.

 

Heritage stands apart, and it gives them their own place in the guitar market.  "We remain committed to crafting the finest handmade guitars available at any price...", and I find myself relieved to hear that they won't be homogenizing their guitars with CNC machinery.

A H-535 isn't a carved instrument - the top and back are pressed into shape.  How is carving out a strat body any different than carving out a H-150 body?  Imagine being able to order a H-535 with a slim C, medium C, large C, slim D, medium D, large D, slim V, medium V, large V, etc, etc, etc. shaped neck and know what you are getting.  That's what I'm talking about.  Imagine neck pockets precisely cut so that they can maintain the propper neck angle from instrument to instrument.  That's what I'm talking about.  Imagine a CNC machine doing the rough work on a carved top guitar, getting the body maybe 80% the way there in 20% of the time, then the skilled luthier takes over and fine tunes it.  He spends his time doing the detail work, not the grunt work.  That's what I'm talking about.  Imagine them being able to increase output by using CNC machines (or other machine) to do the grunt work, while maintaining or even improving the quality by allowing the lutheir to focus on the fine details.  That's what I'm talking about. 

 

A machine will never replace a skilled craftsman.  But in the hands of a skilled craftsman they can help them to do their work faster and/or with greater precision.  Now that's what I'm talking about!

[yoslate]

Guitart...

 

Love the cadence of your last posting!  Like the insight, as well as the (relative) summary brevity! 

 

I have lovely Heritages, however you'd care to characterize their genesis.  I have wonderful guitars which represent extensive CNC'ing.  Think I'll take one of each to the "jam" tonight, play 'em both into the ground, and not talk to anyone about how either of them is manufactured...or is that made...? 

                            ;D

[AnH555]

I must say I have a great respect for every point of view here. GuitArtMan,  I can't find a single word in your last post that I disagree with. At this point it may be more a matter of individual preferences; the consistency of a precision-machined neck, or the individual character of a more hand-made one, for better or worse. I think there are pros and cons to both.

[skydog]

I've created a monster!

[GuitArtMan]

I've created a monster!

Long live this post!  ;D

[PacerX]

Guitart...

 

Love the cadence of your last posting!  Like the insight, as well as the (relative) summary brevity! 

 

I have lovely Heritages, however you'd care to characterize their genesis.  I have wonderful guitars which represent extensive CNC'ing.  Think I'll take one of each to the "jam" tonight, play 'em both into the ground, and not talk to anyone about how either of them is manufactured...or is that made...? 

                             ;D

 

How'd the jam go?  Did folks head for the exits when you whipped out the CNC guitar?

[Kazwell]

I just want to comment on how impressed I am regarding the indivuduals who post in this forum. The level of insight and articulation of thoughts are ideas along with the unbridled passion for guitars is truly remarkable. At the same time, it is also nice to see people -this post is a great example, being able to "agree to disagree". All too many times I have seen "discussions" in similar forums turn into free-for-alls complete with wars of words and personal attacks.

Just wanted to give you folks your props.....you deserve it.

[Gitfiddler]

I just want to comment on how impressed I am regarding the indivuduals who post in this forum. The level of insight and articulation of thoughts are ideas along with the unbridled passion for guitars is truly remarkable. At the same time, it is also nice to see people -this post is a great example, being able to "agree to disagree". All too many times I have seen "discussions" in similar forums turn into free-for-alls complete with wars of words and personal attacks.

Just wanted to give you folks your props.....you deserve it.

 

 

Amen, Brother!  8)

[yoslate]

How'd the jam go?  Did folks head for the exits when you whipped out the CNC guitar?

 

Pacer:  Might be opening myself up in answering this one.  Could be a variety of reasons for a mass exodus.... 

 

Terrific, supportive local scene here.  I occasionally get to play with folks you've heard, just slumming on a weeknight.  It's always a guitar show, too!  Not unlike this forum, the comments and observations are overwhelmingly positive.  Lots of Pauls, Strats, and Teles; Historics, Custom Shop stuff, vintage, somebody's latest.  Guy showed up one night with a '60 Strat.  Yep, the real thing; quite decent shape, good stick!  Let everyone who wanted to, spank it for a set.  He didn't know anyone; no one knew him - never saw him again.  Bags of fun!  Every case comes in the door gets the hard eye, often prompting discussions just like this thread...though hardly as knowing, articulate, and analytical.  But the conclusions are - not surprisingly - similar.

 

Played a set with my 576 through the Top Hat, favorite rig. Sounded fabulous.  Luck of the draw, I was up with guys who weren't...uhm...good; a predictable set.  Net result: sympathetic friend buys me a "consolation" round....  Later, played a set with the First Act VW guitar, same amp.  Sounded fabulous.  Luck of the draw, up with the primo players, terrific set.  Net result; somebody I didn't know liked the set, bought me a round.  Final tally:  Heritage 1; First Act VW 1  I go home way to the good!  Thanks for asking.