nat120 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 I am a new member here and had a few questions about the Heritage Guitars that are Pleked vs the ones that are not. With the guitars that are Pleked will the playability be better for the life of the guitar, meaning that the frets are installed better? Or is it a really good fret leveling that is good until the frets wear from playing it alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Because the neck is made of wood, and wood responds to moisture, and a lesser extent to temperature, I cannot believe that any fret job will last the life of a guitar. The neck is organic and bound to move. My opinion is that the Plek is a tool used to automate fret leveling and dressing, much like a CNC mill eliminates the need for a pin router in other operations. It is not a magic cure-all for a poorly designed or sloppily constructed instrument. I have several old Heritage guitars (pre-Plek) and have zero fret issues. The guys at the factory generally pay attention to detail and take pride in their workmanship. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that someone with fifty years of experience dressing frets can be as consistent and accurate as the Plek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 First off they don't use the Plek machine anymore, so you can't get a new Plek'd guitar. Secondly, I have a number of Plek and Hand fret finished guitars and HONESTLY, I can't tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthpawGuy Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 First off they don't use the Plek machine anymore, so you can't get a new Plek'd guitar. Secondly, I have a number of Plek and Hand fret finished guitars and HONESTLY, I can't tell the difference. Interesting ... They haven't got it fixed yet or they choose not to use it anymore ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Interesting ... They haven't got it fixed yet or they choose not to use it anymore ? its stitting in a corner covered w/ dust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Interesting ... They haven't got it fixed yet or they choose not to use it anymore ? Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthpawGuy Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 its stitting in a corner covered w/ dust Yes! Really ? I guess they went back to the tried and trusted methods then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferwave Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Ren says he knows what he's doing and I believe him. The plek machine was probably high maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzpunk Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 http://www.heritageguitar.com/customers/stories.htm :-X I will not comment on the Heritage website...I will not comment on the Heritage website...I will not comment on the Heritage website... :-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat120 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 I talked to Ren through email and he had said that they were updating the Plek Machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitArtMan Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I for one am sorry to hear Heritage has stopped using the Plek machine. Though all three of my Pleked Heritages had issues: 535 Antique Natural - dead fret at the 13th fret 535 Dark Almond Burst - high nut and random buzzing up and down the neck 137 - terrible buzzing off of the nut They played better overall than my non-Pleked Heritages. Heritage, like Gibson, frankly has not been know for stellar fret work. The fingerboards to the best of my knowledge are fretted before being attached to the neck! This simply doesn't make sense, whether or not it's the way they've been doing it for years or not. PRS, Grosh, Suhr, Anderson, heck even the Japanese guitars like Ibanez or Yamaha have better fretwork. Sorry as I love Heritage but it's a fact. If I buy a Heritage I allow for the fact it's gonna need a pro fret dress to play it's best. Everyone of mine has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Unfortunately, the same goes for their nut work as well. But it's somewhat easily remedied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikenov Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 If I buy a Heritage I allow for the fact it's gonna need a pro fret dress to play it's best. Everyone of mine has. this is a fact IMHO . Every one of the heritages I own or have owned (4) needed a new nut and all required a quality fret dress to get the most out of the guitar. After that was done though they are the best guitars I have played. I have not had the pleasure of playing a Suhr or Anderson, or one of those super expensive boutique brands so I can't say they are the best anywhere but I am truly happy with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 There's something funny going on. Like the last three posters my experience with Heritage's fretwork is that it was pretty awful, but then there are a bunch of members here that'll say that their guitars were in fine when then got them. Is it just a matter of personal expectation or are there really models with good fretwork and others with not so good fretwork ? I have a feeling that the ones with the lousy frets are the ones that were PLEK'd. My frets showed obvious grinder marks which I've never seen on another guitar. I agree that once the frets and nut are fixed up the guitar plays like a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Mine was not a plek'd guitar. The frets were fine when I got it, even and smooth. Maybe not as good as my PRS, but they were only a light a light polish away from being good. It also had a retail price $700Au less than my PRS. It also has a whole lot more vibe and tone than my PRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111518 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 When I got back into playing 15 years ago and started looking for a Heritage, one thing I heard in discussions with friends in the business was that Heritage had a reputation for poor fret work. I also later heard that dealers, including Wolfe, were so unhappy about the inconsistency of the fretwork that they insisted on the plek machine. (Maybe the factory hasn't kept the plek machine running because they never really thought they needed it in the first place --just my speculation. With so many dealers now cut off from Gibson and interested in Heritage as a franchise, I doubt dealers now have the leverage to insist on much --just glad to have access to an American-made guitar line with a reasonable franchise policy.) I report this not as truth, but just as "guitar dealer buzz," which is important, rightly or wrongly, in establishing a company's reputation for delivering quality out of the box. (Noticeably bad fretwork either gives a dealer a ton of work to get guitars ready to display, or, if dealers don't do a level and dress, the guitars play like crap and customers are unlikely to buy --esp. an expensive guitar.) I have not had fretwork problems with the three that I own, one of which was "pre-plek," one of which I think was plek-ed, and one I'm not sure about. Only the plek-ed one was new, so problems on ones I bought used might have already been addressed. The Plek-ed one has actually been the hardest to get to settle into a consistent set up --so plek is no guarantee a guitar is going to play well, even in the relatively short term. It's also true that I don't play with super-low action, so fret work that seems OK with me might not satisfy another guitarist --I do think PRS and EB and others have established a new expectation of perfectly level frets and super low action that is simply a different standard than anything that golden-age Gibson ever attempted to achieve. Getting back to the original question .... I think Dix is correct: the Plek is just a CNC fret leveler, so constructed that it can work on assembled guitars. A few big repair shops now have them and advertise that they will do a plek fret dressing on your guitar. A Plek might temporarily alleviate symptoms of bad fretwork like buzzing or dead notes, but it's not going to fix underlying problems like an uneven fretboard or poorly seated frets that would make those problems return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Wow, I am really shocked. As an owner of probably 50 electrics in the last 25 years, I know poor fret work. All three of my early 90s Gibson LPs had fret uncrowned, sticking over the binding, and so sharp I could literally cut my dinner with them. I have had issues with poor frets from Fender on Strats & Teles, but no issues in the last 5 years or so. As an owner of 9 Heritages (only 3 being used) I have zero issues with their frets. All my Heritages are set up at 4/64s low E, and 3/64ths high E with no buzz. I have done the set ups myself or had a luthier do it. I am not saying you guys are having these issues, I'm just saying I never have had them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat120 Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Hey these are some really great posts, especially the one from 111518. I will say that I have heard the same about poor fret work in the past, but I played a Pleked H-157 at a local guitar shop and the fret work was excellent. Every note sang out from lower frets all the way up the fret board. Nothing fretted out. It play a lot better then my Gibson LP Standard. Thanks for the posts guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shook494 Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I have to say that I haven't had this issue with my 150's. I got them used, so maybe they were worked on by the previous owner's? I'm happy with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacerX Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Unless you drop the action, and I mean REALLY drop it, you never get a really good idea of how good the fretwork really is on a guitar. "Really drop it" means the following: So low that it will only bend a minor 3rd cleanly before fretting out due to the fretboard radius, anywhere on the fretboard. P.S. Now you know why us shred types like flatter fretboards - you can drop the action further... well, that and they're much easier to play fast on in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverb Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I just had to do a minor fret level on a 2002 H-150 a couple of days ago. 4th fret was a bit high and was wreaking havoc on the low E and was mildly irritating the D and A strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacques Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I am always a little envious at people who seem to discover all these flaws on their guitars. There must be something I don't know! What is that secret knowledge? Bad frets, bad nuts, bad bridges, bad tailpieces, bad necks, bad pickups, bad tuners, bad bindings, bad electronics, even bad what's the name of these things you hook your strap on? Oooooh so bad these things can be! - the forums on the internet thrive on all kinds of picky people with bad news about all those bad things about all those bad guitars... I mean, not that we have 'em here, but there are folks that manage to find problems everywhere... Every now and then I had a guitar where I thought some different pickups might improve the sound. And every time if I was really honest I had my doubts about the difference before and after... Yes, I put a six saddle bridge on my tele because I couldn't get the intonation right. But most of my ten or so guitars were well made and I never had any issue with my Heritages, apart from the dreaded older VIP-system and some of the Schaller pickups that maybe didn't do so well on some models. Come on - every review of modern guitars tells you that they are very well made. It's a bit like cars: hard to find a bad one these days! Heritage guitars are hand made, so you may find some anomalies once in a while, but ...bad frets? Never seen 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitArtMan Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I am always a little envious at people who seem to discover all these flaws on their guitars. There must be something I don't know! What is that secret knowledge? Bad frets, bad nuts, bad bridges, bad tailpieces, bad necks, bad pickups, bad tuners, bad bindings, bad electronics, even bad what's the name of these things you hook your strap on? Oooooh so bad these things can be! - the forums on the internet thrive on all kinds of picky people with bad news about all those bad things about all those bad guitars... I mean, not that we have 'em here, but there are folks that manage to find problems everywhere... Every now and then I had a guitar where I thought some different pickups might improve the sound. And every time if I was really honest I had my doubts about the difference before and after... Yes, I put a six saddle bridge on my tele because I couldn't get the intonation right. But most of my ten or so guitars were well made and I never had any issue with my Heritages, apart from the dreaded older VIP-system and some of the Schaller pickups that maybe didn't do so well on some models. Come on - every review of modern guitars tells you that they are very well made. It's a bit like cars: hard to find a bad one these days! Heritage guitars are hand made, so you may find some anomalies once in a while, but ...bad frets? Never seen 'em! Jacques, I've been palying since the mid '70s. I first became aware of frets when I bought my Les Paul Custom fretless blunder, er fretless wonder. The frets were not only low, they were ground flat on top (not crowned), were poorly polished and were not even level. Luckily my brother was going to UC Berkley at the time and Heidio Kammimotto (sp?) was the local Gibson autorized rep up there and he was able to get the frets cleaned up. Around that time Ibanez had the Artist series and Yamaha had the SG series. These things off the wall had frets that were level and properly crowned and polished and played like a dream. I nearly traded my Les Paul for an Ibanez artist that played 100% better, but I didn't like the pickups not the fact that is was neck heavy. I decided to have the Les Paul refretted. Well the local tech in my neck of the woods was Bill Delap, who went on to build custom guitars for Allan Holdsworth among others. Bill refretted the Les Paul for me with jumbo frets that were level, crowned and polished to perfection. Then I knew what good frets felt like. My 1988 PRS Custom amazed me with the low, buzz free action up and down the neck. One thing I noticed with that guitar was that if I lowered the action it would start to buzz evenly up and down the neck. Then when I raised it back up, it cleaned up evenly up and down the neck. There were no high spots, or low spots, or dead spots. That neck was perfectly set up out of the box. The other thing I noticed in the 8 years I owned it, it never once needed a truss rod adjustment. The Tom Anderson's I've owned are the same way. As are my Don Grosh's and the guitars I've had refretted by Michael Tuttle. I wont bore you with all the guitars I've owned through the years, but suffice it to say every Gibson and Heritage I've owned had fret issues. They had high frets and/or low frets and/or dead frets and/or poorly polished frets. It's just a fact. I deal with it. I account for it when I buy a Gibson or a Heritage. That's my story and I'm stickin to it! Oh, and I'm damn glad I found Michael Tuttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 I am always a little envious at people who seem to discover all these flaws on their guitars. There must be something I don't know! What is that secret knowledge? Bad frets, bad nuts, bad bridges, bad tailpieces, bad necks, bad pickups, bad tuners, bad bindings, bad electronics, even bad what's the name of these things you hook your strap on? Oooooh so bad these things can be! - the forums on the internet thrive on all kinds of picky people with bad news about all those bad things about all those bad guitars... I mean, not that we have 'em here, but there are folks that manage to find problems everywhere... Every now and then I had a guitar where I thought some different pickups might improve the sound. And every time if I was really honest I had my doubts about the difference before and after... Yes, I put a six saddle bridge on my tele because I couldn't get the intonation right. But most of my ten or so guitars were well made and I never had any issue with my Heritages, apart from the dreaded older VIP-system and some of the Schaller pickups that maybe didn't do so well on some models. Come on - every review of modern guitars tells you that they are very well made. It's a bit like cars: hard to find a bad one these days! Heritage guitars are hand made, so you may find some anomalies once in a while, but ...bad frets? Never seen 'em! Jacques, Man I am with you. I have heard you play, and man you can flat out play. I have heard Rob, Randy, Kenny, Mike, ect... all very good players and I don't hear them complaining about significant issues with brand (whatever) guitar. I have seen, felt, and played a little on some very accomplished players guitars, and I can tell you the action & buzzing is usually much worse than my guitars. It is my experience that truely gifted players don't blame their equipment. I just read an article about Marc Ford where he is amazed at the techno nerds writing down every pedal & amp setting he uses, and Marc said that he doesn't even know his settings. It is my opinion on pickups that they will only change the sound of the guitar by 10-15%. The rest is up to you and your fingers. Sooner or latter you have to adopt Yoslates' saying "Just play the f***ing thing!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have one thing to say to everybody that makes a blanket statement like..... Heritage has QC issues..... Call them! They will make it right. (try that w/ other companies) Nobodys perfect...its just wood and glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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