Kuz Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Well my 150CM goldtop with P90 lollars came to the house last night. I have three topics on this guitar. The Good. The Bad. The Ugly. Which do you want first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Let's get the bad out of the way, then the ugly, and save the good for last, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 i always want the bad news first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider313 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The ugly first. Always get the ugly out of the way so the bad doesn't look so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I'd go ugly, bad, good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Well, after 25mins we have 2 "bad" & 2 "ugly". I'll make a decision and go; Bad, Ugly, Good. BAD... The tone is Bad. I mean BAD! It has exactly that ratty p90 tone I have dreamedof. It sustains for days, can get nice and fat on the neck Pup and cut like a knife on the bridge Pup. I had a 40th Anniv LP with so called p90s and it sounded too thin & ice pick to the ear. No the Lollars. They have tons of out put too. About the same or more out put than my 555 with Hbuckers. This is not a honeymoon tone, it's the tone I have wanted for years. And as for hum; really none played clean and surprisingly less than expected with distortion. Give 10mins for the "Ugly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 OK now for some more sobering news. UGLY If Heritage is going to increase their prices by 25-30% they need to do a better job on cosmetic finishing. 1. I called Graham about the the extra pieces of wood they add on to the headstock "wings". These are not stained the right color, don't seem to have the same wood grain, and stick out like a soar thumb. Graham said this difference in color is normal for Heritage lighter stained guitars. I would appreciate your feedback see first set of pics 2. The maple cap is very noticeable between the binding and the mahogany at the cutaway. Graham said this is how they have always made them and even the Cust Shop R.I. guitars are made this way. I would appreciate your feedback see next pic. I will continue on next post with the "Ugly" (ya there's more) _DSC2133 web.jpg _DSC2133 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2135 web.jpg _DSC2135 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2141 web.jpg _DSC2141 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2149 web.jpg _DSC2149 web.jpg_thumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayta Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The binding issue I could live with. I find the headstock issue unacceptable. If that's what happens when you use a lighter stain they should have saved that stock for a model that was going to use a darker/solid finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 My H150 is similar to yours. The headstock wings don't "stick out" as much as yours, but they still do. And, like yours, the treble-side wing is longer than the bass-side wing. As far as the cutaway binding, Graham is correct. That's how Gibby made them "way back when." Bottom line--if those are the only problems with it, then play away! I can't wait to get my P90 H150 out of layaway now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 OK the first 2 "Ugly" points are acceptable if that is how they used to make them. UGLY Continued. 3. WAY TOO MANY SANDING MARKS. I know Heritages are handmade, and I do give them a little latitude because of this, but come on. Look above the toggle control cavity, neck heel, and edge of cutaway. Check pic to see if I'm nuts on this point. 4. Red dye between gold top & binding (pic doesn't show it well but this really sticks out). Did someone forget to clean the paint gun? see pics 5. Finish crack already. Probably made by screwing the tone know too tight. It arrived this way at my door. I let 4 hours for case to warm to room temp then open/shut quick for another hour. This possibly left Jay's like this or happened during shipping. see final pic on UGLY. Stay with me folks, the "Good" gives us some hope! _DSC2137 web.jpg _DSC2137 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2153 web.jpg _DSC2153 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2156 web.jpg _DSC2156 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2146 web.jpg _DSC2146 web.jpg_thumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitArtMan Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Take a look in the cutaway on a vintage Gword - same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Mmmm. Hrmmm. The wings are not something I'd be happy with. The visible cap is what it is...and I've seen it before (on Gibbys and Heritages); it's never bothered me; rather I thought it was kind of cool. The sanding marks wouldn't please me, but the back of my H137 looks similar (albeit under Cherry, so it's not as noticeable). The stain on the edge and the finish crack. Hrmm. Hrmm indeed. I'm not going to tell you what I would do, because I don't have the guitar in hand, so I can't balance any of the bad and ugly against anything. How does it sound and play? Is the fretwork done right? Setup OK? Hrmm. What did your dealer say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 You know, we want so hard for these guitars to be the best. They are, really. But I've got to say, those headstock wings are not good! I think you'd have reason to be upset over that. Even if it IS the way they used to do it. Time for the boys to get over that. The back ... I'd be disappointed in that, too. To me, those are three flaws that should have said "2nd" (sorry :'( ) to the 'zoo. The other flaws I'm not seeing. Kuz, hope the good outways the "bad" and "ugly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayta Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 To me, those are three flaws that should have said "2nd" (sorry :'( ) to the 'zoo. Agreed. I'd be looking for a substantial discount or a replacement instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Agreed. I'd be looking for a substantial discount or a replacement instrument. I agree as well. I'd be talking to Jay or Graham ASAP, and email those pics to them. Heck, even send those pics to Ren and Lane (I had to do that when I had problems with my H157). I would either return it, or exchange it for another. Isn't there a 48-hour approval period? Those are unacceptable! You may be able to get a discount, but would you really be happy with it? That's the only thing with Heritage I don't like. Every one I've owned had some sort of finishing flaw that made me slightly disappointed. They can get the construction details right, why can't they do the same with the final finishing process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 ...They can get the construction details right, why can't they do the same with the final finishing process? I was going to go to bed, but I'll take a swing at this one. Have you observed the work ethic and product/productivity of, oh, the 18-30 crowd these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Have you observed the work ethic and product/productivity of, oh, the 18-30 crowd these days? Unfortunately, I have. In fact, I see it almost every day. Don't the others (Ren, Bill, etc.) still work on these as well? Does Heritage have any kind of QA process? Those "problems" should be easy to spot at each stage of the production process. They should also have a final inspection before they are boxed for shipping. I would think the dealerships would send those back as well, but I know they probably won't. I bought a P90 H150 from another dealer last year, and within 15 minutes of opening the box, I knew it was going back--too many finishing flaws! I only hope that Vince can improve things. If I discover my P90 H150 that I have on layaway has problems like these, then I need to possibly look at others--maybe Hamer should be on my list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This is a good example of the perils of buying online. I think it's almost impossible not to create an image of the perfect guitar on its way to us. We have days, weeks (even a year !) to perfect this image. Then the thing arrives and it's not exactly what we had in mind. I think a good way to buy online is to budget up front a certain amount for shipping a guitar or three back until we get one we're completely happy with. It's not lost money but part of the total cost. Then, we shouldn't feel at all bad about shipping a guitar back if there is anything that is going to bug us for the long run. The same is true for time. The time that will be consumed during this period should also be forseen. It shouldn't be too painful if we expect to be dissatisfied a few times, until finally the dream guitar shows up at our door. Kuz, if you think you'll be continuously dissatisfied with this guitar just send it back and don't worry about it. I don't know how much you've got in this guitar but I know it's a lot. You deserve to be fully satisfied. That said, I don't believe we've hear the Good yet ? Paul P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Before I announce the GOOD I would welcome an your opinions. I have very mixed feeling about this guitar. If it resembles a vintage Parson St made Les Paul then that is all I can hope for. -If the headstock wings are (and always were, meaning vintage Gibby) always off color of the neck stain and the binding never matched the maple cap, I can live with that. -The sanding is done by hand (and no one will ever mistake that when they see the sanding on this guitar) but I feel it was very quickly done with little effort to make sure it was uniform. But again if this resembles a vintage Gibby or a new Cust shop Gibby historic then I guess I can live with that. -The premature finish check, I can't be sure if that occurred in shipping or if it was always that way. Either way it's not going to change. -The red dye (or paint) between the gold top & binding I feel is unacceptable. It is definitely noticeable more so than some of the other flaws. It didn't show up as well in the pics but it is inconceivable to me that someone didn't clean the paint gun! Someone asked and I don't mind sharing I have $2155 in the guitar.I would appreciate if you could tell me if these flaws are consistent with your solid body Heritages. I promised the GOOD 1. The tone is righteous. 2. It plays incredible well, as good as my PRS guitars and other Heritages. Low action that could go lower with no buzz 3. Weight is medium. I would guess 9.5 lbs or a shade over 4. It stays in tune very well. 5. Beautiful, slightly figures rosewood neck (probably Indian RW but feels & looks like Brazilian) 6. Fatter '50s neck (very comfortable & not too big or thin) 7. Jay & Graham did do an excellent job with upgrades -Sperzel tuners with deep grained ivory look -aged amber knob with Rhythm/lead back plate -vintage tone & volume knobs -input jack back plate -vintage Gibby pic guard see attached pics (what is finished correctly is stunning) SO FINAL THOUGHTS Heritage guitars are handmade but this shouldn't be view as an opportunity to sacrifice cosmetic finishing. Graham did an excellent job of packaging & setting up the guitar. It was detuned for shipping, but just tuned it to pitch and she was perfect, no adjustments needed. I would not hesitate to buy from them again. (Short of getting more pics before it's shipped) If I view the guitar for what it was intended (to sound & play great, it does that as well as any guitar I own). If the "flaws" were not do to neglect but were "vintage workmanship" I could always say that is how they used to make them. I'm not into the "relic" guitar craze but this guitar is already on it's way. It does have some uniqueness that again I need your help to know if that is how the older Gibby guitars used to look new. DID THEY REAL over spray with the wrong color (ie red were it should be gold)? I ask for your input. I am definitely leaning one way but would love your thoughts. Thank you friends, John _DSC2129 web.jpg _DSC2129 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2130 web.jpg _DSC2130 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2132 web.jpg _DSC2132 web.jpg_thumb _DSC2143 web.jpg _DSC2143 web.jpg_thumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Kuz, if I may? you've received some very, very good input here. I don't need to augment that. You seem an eclectic fan of Heritage guitars. You have four apparently terrific ones; you know what you want. Set the new one on a stand, next to the other four. Knowing your four keepers, and the new one as best you can, think...does the new one belong with the others? Do you want to try to sell it in days, weeks, months and have to explain those finish flaws to someone like you? When you look at the instrument, do you see the guitar or the flaws? You gonna play it or look at it? Best of luck! Slate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Flying Bird Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I can't see the mistakes. You need some better pics of this guitar to help us give you advice. I would be glad to take a few photos of the areas of interest and post them here for you. E-mail me for a shipping address. You spent a whole lot of money on that guitar. If it isn't perfect send it back! I have never seen a bad finish on a Heritage but I am sure by the threads on this forum that such guitars do slip through the cracks. Cuz, I would rather spend $900.00 on a beat up 95' H-150 and modify it to my taste than to spend that much on this guitar and it have flaws. I am sure that Wolfe's customer service would rather you be happy more than any thing else too. I paid a "bit" more for the guitar I got from Wolfe but I knew that included the customer service they provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This is a good example of the perils of buying online. I think it's almost impossible not to create an image of the perfect guitar on its way to us. We have days, weeks (even a year !) to perfect this image. Then the thing arrives and it's not exactly what we had in mind. I think a good way to buy online is to budget up front a certain amount for shipping a guitar or three back until we get one we're completely happy with. It's not lost money but part of the total cost. Then, we shouldn't feel at all bad about shipping a guitar back if there is anything that is going to bug us for the long run. The same is true for time. The time that will be consumed during this period should also be forseen. It shouldn't be too painful if we expect to be dissatisfied a few times, until finally the dream guitar shows up at our door. Kuz, if you think you'll be continuously dissatisfied with this guitar just send it back and don't worry about it. I don't know how much you've got in this guitar but I know it's a lot. You deserve to be fully satisfied. That said, I don't believe we've hear the Good yet ? Paul P Completely agree with Paul P. If you were at the guitar shop and picked this one up... you probably would have immediately seen the sanding marks on it and put it back on the rack. On-line buying means it takes a long time to pick it up, and a long time to put it back down. If the good aspects of the guitar outweigh the bad... try to get it at a discount. If your eye can't avoid seeing the imperfections...just send the thing back. Don't let it get you down. Also... the maple top peeking out from under the binding is standard . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 I can't see the mistakes. You need some better pics of this guitar to help us give you advice. I would be glad to take a few photos of the areas of interest and post them here for you. E-mail me for a shipping address. You spent a whole lot of money on that guitar. If it isn't perfect send it back! I have never seen a bad finish on a Heritage but I am sure by the threads on this forum that such guitars do slip through the cracks. Cuz, I would rather spend $900.00 on a beat up 95' H-150 and modify it to my taste than to spend that much on this guitar and it have flaws. I am sure that Wolfe's customer service would rather you be happy more than any thing else too. I paid a "bit" more for the guitar I got from Wolfe but I knew that included the customer service they provide. Flawed pics are on my other thread "It's here. The Good, Bad, and Ugly" Thanks, and I appreciate your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Kuz, if I may? you've received some very, very good input here. I don't need to augment that. You seem an eclectic fan of Heritage guitars. You have four apparently terrific ones; you know what you want. Set the new one on a stand, next to the other four. Knowing your four keepers, and the new one as best you can, think...does the new one belong with the others? Do you want to try to sell it in days, weeks, months and have to explain those finish flaws to someone like you? When you look at the instrument, do you see the guitar or the flaws? You gonna play it or look at it? Best of luck! Slate Thank you Slate, and I am definitely leaning one way. I am not disclosing that view yet, because as some have enlighted me on the maple cap showing being a true vintage look, I just want to know if these "flaws" are a product of vintage workmanship (which I can live with) or Heritage Neglect (which is harder to swallow). I would appreciate your view because I respect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Flying Bird Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Cuz, I found the other thread and photos. I would send it back. Like Slate said, "would it fit in with the other Heritage guitars you had?" Bottom line. Not with me and my other friend's collection. Tone, playability and finish! If it doesn't have all 3 it shouldn't leave Kalamazoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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