PAF from Gibson

[rockabilly69]

20 hours ago, rwinking said:

Therein lies the issue....What exactly is the original PAF tone? I mean which PAF tone? I have a friend with a 58 Burst and it is more the guitar than the pick ups. The guitar acoustically is just that much different. He also has a dot neck 335 and the pick ups are different sounding than the burst.

That's not an issue as long as they find a few good examples of PAF tone that's good enough. Most of them from the good years share enough DNA to make the chase worthwhile. And that's why Throbak offers more than one good variant of that tone. And yes, the original bursts and goldtops do have a considerably different wood tone than the newer ones further confusing things.

[deytookerjaabs]

One thing hard to replicate is the microphonic thing.

I'm not taking about squeal/feedback either. I'm talking about the raw aspect of it. Not all old pickups have that thing either, my '62 pat stickers don't. So that's important to consider. But, for instance, I have some old strat grey bottoms. Upon installing them when I flipped the 5-way switch it came through the amp far louder than the switches on any other guitar. It was like "ooooh, we got a wild one here!".

I've had that same feeling with other vintage guitars regardless of the finer details. You hit the toggle switch and it goes "ker kuh klunk" right through the pickups, like the guitar is humming.

That type of microphonic makes a guitar ring a bit different, subtle and more personal but it's still there. If I had to go off the ledge, I'd say those guitars you hear just a tiny bit more body in the note on that first millisecond of the pick attack. That's not something I've experience with replica pickups/harness as of yet.

Edited March 4 by deytookerjaabs

[rockabilly69]

47 minutes ago, deytookerjaabs said:

One thing hard to replicate is the microphonic thing.

I'm not taking about sI've experqueal/feedback either. I'm talking about the raw aspect of it. Not all old pickups have that thing either, my '62 pat stickers don't. So that's important to consider. But, for instance, I have some old strat grey bottoms. Upon installing them when I flipped the 5-way switch it came through the amp far louder than the switches on any other guitar. It was like "ooooh, we got a wild one here!".

I've had that same feeling with other vintage guitars regardless of the finer details. You hit the toggle switch and it goes "ker kuh klunk" right through the pickups, like the guitar is humming.

That type of microphonic makes a guitar ring a bit different, subtle and more personal but it's still there. If I had to go off the ledge, I'd say those guitars you hear just a tiny bit more body in the note on that first millisecond of the pick attack. That's not something I've experience with replica pickups/harness as of yet.

I've experienced it many times with Throbaks, and in their first few runs I saw more more than one that got too microphonic. I actually have fixed a few microphonic issues with Throbaks. I love microphonic pickups. Old timer Gretsch fans used to call that wood in the sound "knock"!

[deytookerjaabs]

8 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

I've experienced it many times with Throbaks, and in their first few runs I saw more more than one that got too microphonic. I actually have fixed a few microphonic issues with Throbaks. I love microphonic pickups. Old timer Gretsch fans used to call that wood in the sound "knock"!

I might have to investigate this down the road. I've played guitars with throbaks at a shop but never owned a set. Out of the pricier pickups I've had I haven't had one that's done it yet, random Gibson offerings, a Re-Wind JPP set, a random Wizz set, two SD sets. Not that they all didn't sound great, they did.

[MartyGrass]

I had a 1960s ES-330 that squealed like crazy.  I don't know if had anything to do with the chrome covers.

[zguitar71]

11 hours ago, deytookerjaabs said:

One thing hard to replicate is the microphonic thing.

I'm not taking about squeal/feedback either. I'm talking about the raw aspect of it. Not all old pickups have that thing either, my '62 pat stickers don't. So that's important to consider. But, for instance, I have some old strat grey bottoms. Upon installing them when I flipped the 5-way switch it came through the amp far louder than the switches on any other guitar. It was like "ooooh, we got a wild one here!".

I've had that same feeling with other vintage guitars regardless of the finer details. You hit the toggle switch and it goes "ker kuh klunk" right through the pickups, like the guitar is humming.

That type of microphonic makes a guitar ring a bit different, subtle and more personal but it's still there. If I had to go off the ledge, I'd say those guitars you hear just a tiny bit more body in the note on that first millisecond of the pick attack. That's not something I've experience with replica pickups/harness as of yet.

That is the result of not wax potting a pickup, they are sensitive to being tapped with a pick or when the switch is flipped or can make a signal from being talked loudly into and the vibrations associated with that. I don’t have potted pickups in any guitar and they all do this. The pickups vary from Wolfetone Legends in an Eastman, original P90s in a ‘57 ES225 to Tyson Tonelab P90s in an H150, and Throbak P90s in a Tokai Special.  
 

The best part of the times we live in are the guitars and accessories that go with them. We are living in an era with some of the best guitars ever built, some of the best hardware, best pickups and on and on. I’ve had the good fortune to play quite a few vintage guitars in my life. Some were worth peanuts at the time and I didn’t buy them, if only I could see the future. I never bought a double cut JR but played so many in stores when they were a cheap guitar. I just played an Eastman SB55dc and it was every bit as good as any 58-60 I’ve ever had my hands on. The magic in all these guitars is a good piece of wood, hardware, pickup and good craftsmanship. All of that is plentiful currently. I was just in Rudy’s Music in NYC and they had a ‘59 Jr. for a mere $27k. What?! For me the vintage market is no longer about superior tone, it is only about coolness and history. If I was rich I would buy as many as possible but I’m not and it isn’t an issue because I can literally buy a new or used newer guitar at does it just as well. 

[deytookerjaabs]

12 minutes ago, zguitar71 said:

That is the result of not wax potting a pickup, they are sensitive to being tapped with a pick or when the switch is flipped or can make a signal from being talked loudly into and the vibrations associated with that. I don’t have potted pickups in any guitar and they all do this. The pickups vary from Wolfetone Legends in an Eastman, original P90s in a ‘57 ES225 to Tyson Tonelab P90s in an H150, and Throbak P90s in a Tokai Special.  
 

The best part of the times we live in are the guitars and accessories that go with them. We are living in an era with some of the best guitars ever built, some of the best hardware, best pickups and on and on. I’ve had the good fortune to play quite a few vintage guitars in my life. Some were worth peanuts at the time and I didn’t buy them, if only I could see the future. I never bought a double cut JR but played so many in stores when they were a cheap guitar. I just played an Eastman SB55dc and it was every bit as good as any 58-60 I’ve ever had my hands on. The magic in all these guitars is a good piece of wood, hardware, pickup and good craftsmanship. All of that is plentiful currently. I was just in Rudy’s Music in NYC and they had a ‘59 Jr. for a mere $27k. What?! For me the vintage market is no longer about superior tone, it is only about coolness and history. If I was rich I would buy as many as possible but I’m not and it isn’t an issue because I can literally buy a new or used newer guitar at does it just as well. 

 

What I'm talking about isn't just potting.

For instance, I have a strat set right here in a cool replica build, zero potting as requested. Will it squeal? Yeah, I guess if I play with gain. But when you play with the guitar, all the little things like flipping the switch or hitting the body are relatively quiet, barely come through the amp until you really crank it. Yet, the old strat with the grey bottoms, all the extemporaneous noise goes right to the amp and when I moved those pickups around builds? That attribute stayed the same.

My '64 335, same deal. '62 pat sticker pickups and '64 harness. It's all vintage, no potting ever, every part now 60 years old. But it doesn't have the level of microphonic my '68 Riviera has. You flip the switch on the 335, tap the body, etc, barely comes through the amp. It's quiet like that. Yet, The Riv? You hear the toggle clank more, hear the guitar louder through the amp if you just tap on the body at the same volumes, etc.

Who knows, that might mean the pickups are going to short out soon, lol. But, it's definitely a thing and it adds just a little something on the note attack IMO.

 

 

 

 

[rockabilly69]

5 hours ago, deytookerjaabs said:

 

What I'm talking about isn't just potting.

For instance, I have a strat set right here in a cool replica build, zero potting as requested. Will it squeal? Yeah, I guess if I play with gain. But when you play with the guitar, all the little things like flipping the switch or hitting the body are relatively quiet, barely come through the amp until you really crank it. Yet, the old strat with the grey bottoms, all the extemporaneous noise goes right to the amp and when I moved those pickups around builds? That attribute stayed the same.

My '64 335, same deal. '62 pat sticker pickups and '64 harness. It's all vintage, no potting ever, every part now 60 years old. But it doesn't have the level of microphonic my '68 Riviera has. You flip the switch on the 335, tap the body, etc, barely comes through the amp. It's quiet like that. Yet, The Riv? You hear the toggle clank more, hear the guitar louder through the amp if you just tap on the body at the same volumes, etc.

Who knows, that might mean the pickups are going to short out soon, lol. But, it's definitely a thing and it adds just a little something on the note attack IMO.

 

 

 

 

I agree, it's not just the lack of potting, it's also the wind, the materials, and sometimes even the springs that the pickups are mounted with (or without ie P90). And frankly, some pickups have it more than others. My old USA LP Special had it and it followed the pickups (SHED P90s) when I swapped then into an SG! You can hear every time I hit the pickup selector here. And even with the tone knob turned down to 0 during the woman tone sections you can hear it...

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8291529

[deytookerjaabs]

On 3/4/2024 at 4:13 PM, rockabilly69 said:

I agree, it's not just the lack of potting, it's also the wind, the materials, and sometimes even the springs that the pickups are mounted with (or without ie P90). And frankly, some pickups have it more than others. My old USA LP Special had it and it followed the pickups (SHED P90s) when I swapped then into an SG! You can hear every time I hit the pickup selector here. And even with the tone knob turned down to 0 during the woman tone sections you can hear it...

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8291529

 

Yeah, it's kind of a gnarly thing, pickups/guitars like that are somewhere in between really amazing or cheap sound depending on one's taste for tone. I love it.

 

What did Dolly Parton say? "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap."

 

 

[rockabilly69]

5 hours ago, deytookerjaabs said:

 

Yeah, it's kind of a gnarly thing, pickups/guitars like that are somewhere in between really amazing or cheap sound depending on one's taste for tone. I love it.

 

What did Dolly Parton say? "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap."

 

 

I love it too, as it makes the guitar feel like a living breathing thing. And Dolly hit the nail on the head!