Scooter Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Man, some wild threads goin' on right now in this place. The natives are restless. I am wondering about attenuators and any other like-minded inventions out there that're supposed to allow you to "crank" your amp at bedroom volumes to get the sweet stuff. I've read there are different technologies different amp companies are using: attenuation, power scaling, phase 4, etc.. Is there anything available as a seperate component/effect that can be run through your tube amp that does an effective job at allowing you to turn your amp up for that tone while keeping the overall volume low---without losing the value of the sound? I read recently that Michael Swart of Swart Amps suggested to a guy who had a similar question about one of his amps that he get a Dr. Z Brake Lite or Air Brake (attenuator) and plug it into his amp when needed. Have any of you tried the Dr. Z Brake Lite or Air Brake? Other attenuators? The knock I hear on attenuators is if your cranking your amp and turning down the attenuator level your amp runs hot because the amp itself is actually cranked. So shorter tube life. Is there a different technology out there that seeks the same goal as an attenuator but goes about it differently, sparing the tubes from being ridden hard? Any thoughts on this subject? Feed me, Seymore! Scooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydecosoultrain Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Thanks, this is an interesting topic. I have the same problem. I had an Ampeg Superjet that was too loud for practicing at home. I put some THD Yellow Jackets in it which got a better sound at low voume. The yellow jackets are basically adaptors so that you can replace your 6L6,or similar, tubes with EL84 tubes. So while it did work the bottom line is that have to like the Vox AC30 type sound that you end up with. I use a Fender Hot Rod now and once again it is a pretty powerful amp for practicing at home. I might put the Jackets in one day to see how it sounds but because I really like the natural sound of the Fender amp I suspect I won't like them. I've never used an amp attenuater so I'm looking forward to some advice from the wise folk here. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzpunk Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I recently purchased an Ultimate Attenuator. It works as described and I don't notice any drastic mangling of tone when attenuating my amps volume. That said, it has a fan that runs constantly which I find really annoying. It would be fine if I was cranking out a really distorted tone but I bought it so I could push the clean channel on my Fargen to get some added 'hair'. At what I consider to be 'bedroom' volumes the fan is pretty annoying. I was told there is a mod to turn the fan off but I'm figuring it wouldn't be there if it wasn't vital! I like the idea of attenuation but not sure I'm sold yet. I may put the Ultimate up for sale and just get a low wattage amp for home use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 I recently purchased an Ultimate Attenuator. It works as described and I don't notice any drastic mangling of tone when attenuating my amps volume. That said, it has a fan that runs constantly which I find really annoying. It would be fine if I was cranking out a really distorted tone but I bought it so I could push the clean channel on my Fargen to get some added 'hair'. At what I consider to be 'bedroom' volumes the fan is pretty annoying. I was told there is a mod to turn the fan off but I'm figuring it wouldn't be there if it wasn't vital! I like the idea of attenuation but not sure I'm sold yet. I may put the Ultimate up for sale and just get a low wattage amp for home use. I wonder if attenuators vary in their design. I imagine they may. Maybe there are ones without an annoying fan in them. I was checking out the Hot Plate attenuator and in its features sections it didn't say anything about a fan---and I've heard good things of the Hotplate from a couple of people and the reviews I've read. Read a few reviews of the Dr. Z Air Brake, as well. Based on the reviews several people pointed out that the attenuator (in general) is not ideal for the bedroom, but is especially nice for taking a non-master high watt amp and bringing it down a bit while allowing your amp to sound cranked. A few said they were great for the apartment or home. Toneking supposedly has a new technology called Phase 4 that has been put into their new amp the Metropolitan. Mark Bartel claims that it blows attenuators, power scaling, etc. out of the water; a different league. It's supposed to play as quiet as you please--bedroom vols---and still deliver the goods. I don't know if it's possible but if this phase 4 thing is the real deal it would be cool if they could offer it as a seperate effect/component for purchase, like an attenuator is. Maybe that's coming down the road. But having a low power practice amp for home is a good thing, too. It's sounding to me like the way to go. I've got a little GK that's great for that, but I really want a tube amp. I play mostly at home so I'm considering a couple of low wattage tube amps for that reason. It's pretty cool that a lot of the boutique tube amp companies are offering low wattage amps now as they are seeing that there is a big demand for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Man, some wild threads goin' on right now in this place. The natives are restless. I am wondering about attenuators and any other like-minded inventions out there that're supposed to allow you to "crank" your amp at bedroom volumes to get the sweet stuff. I've read there are different technologies different amp companies are using: attenuation, power scaling, phase 4, etc.. Is there anything available as a seperate component/effect that can be run through your tube amp that does an effective job at allowing you to turn your amp up for that tone while keeping the overall volume low---without losing the value of the sound? I read recently that Michael Swart of Swart Amps suggested to a guy who had a similar question about one of his amps that he get a Dr. Z Brake Lite or Air Brake (attenuator) and plug it into his amp when needed. Have any of you tried the Dr. Z Brake Lite or Air Brake? Other attenuators? The knock I hear on attenuators is if your cranking your amp and turning down the attenuator level your amp runs hot because the amp itself is actually cranked. So shorter tube life. Is there a different technology out there that seeks the same goal as an attenuator but goes about it differently, sparing the tubes from being ridden hard? Any thoughts on this subject? Scooter The short answer is no. I understand exactly what you're describing. I searched for the very same entities and finally decided to pursue other interests. I have 1 amp with the 1/2 power switch (or you can pull two of the 4 opwer tubes) and loose 3db; hardly noticeable. The same amp has a class A/B or A switch. This makes a difference in the sound and volume level. As far as better or worse is subjective; I like its effect. I own THD Hot Plates. From what I've read, they were to have the characteristics I wanted. They don't. The units I thought about trying were the Kendrick and DR Z. Both units designed by the late Ken Fischer. What I found is that attenuators do color the sound so you're going to have to dial in the amp after getting the volume level right. For the money you'll spend you can have a 2 x 6V6 or 2 x EL84 amp, drape an old carpet or blanket over it and tune to taste. There are so many interactions going on between the guitar, amp and speakers that influencing the volume changes the entire equation. My resolution is to find ways to get the family out; shopping, ice cream, whatever - get 'em out. That's when I'm happiest playing, no attenuator required! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopeteygo Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I use an Ultimate Attenuator. I can hear the fan but only when I'm right in front of it and I dont normally stand within 1 or 2 feet of my amp. I can't hear it at all while playing and if you're going to use it for gigs I can't imagine anyone hearing it, even me. It does not significantly alter tone and for my purposes it's a great choice. Of course tube life will be shortened but it's because you're turning up the amp and pushing the tubes harder, not because of the attenuator. The Ultimate is the only one I've used so I can't speak for any others. I tried lower watt amps but they just didn't do it for me. My 2 cents, and in this economy it's worth even less. Obviously this is another subjective topic. YMMV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Thanks, this is an interesting topic. I have the same problem. I had an Ampeg Superjet that was too loud for practicing at home. I put some THD Yellow Jackets in it which got a better sound at low voume. The yellow jackets are basically adaptors so that you can replace your 6L6,or similar, tubes with EL84 tubes. So while it did work the bottom line is that have to like the Vox AC30 type sound that you end up with. I use a Fender Hot Rod now and once again it is a pretty powerful amp for practicing at home. I might put the Jackets in one day to see how it sounds but because I really like the natural sound of the Fender amp I suspect I won't like them. I've never used an amp attenuater so I'm looking forward to some advice from the wise folk here. Z I use the THD YJ's in a fender concert. Sounds great. But sounds best when cranked and then its loud enough to easily compete with a drummer. Sounds great though. Where as the 6l6's were barely getting ready to start working. I put a lower watt speaker in and it. That was the final piece that made this amp happen as a lower watt amp. The tone stack is uneffected by the YJ's so I didnt find it to be a hugely different sounding amp. Maybe lifted and softened bottom end and and enhanced the upper mids. Creamier. Furrier around the edges. But it was more about how it broke up or reacted than a tone shift. The different speaker probably altered the tone a lot more than the YJ's, but even that wasnt much Ive tried different attenuators. None of them have been any real use for at home use. But all have been really good for taking a few db off a cranked amp at jams and gigs. I dont own one anymore though. Between lower watt speakers and using amps with 1/10, 1/4, 1/2 power plus gain, ch vol, and output vol and additional gain stage in fx loop attenuators have become redundant as have YJ's. As a side note, Bad Cat make an attenuator which I used and think is very good. But, if you use it on their amps it voids the warranty on the amp as does using any attenuator. Something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I use an Ultimate Attenuator. I can hear the fan but only when I'm right in front of it and I dont normally stand within 1 or 2 feet of my amp. I can't hear it at all while playing and if you're going to use it for gigs I can't imagine anyone hearing it, even me. It does not significantly alter tone and for my purposes it's a great choice. Of course tube life will be shortened but it's because you're turning up the amp and pushing the tubes harder, not because of the attenuator. The Ultimate is the only one I've used so I can't speak for any others. I tried lower watt amps but they just didn't do it for me. My 2 cents, and in this economy it's worth even less. Obviously this is another subjective topic. YMMV! I have the fan on my Mesa LS going alll the time. Never notice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Ted Weber makes some very affordable attenuators. Most of which use a real speaker motor. In theory you get the same reaction from your amp and no tranny blows. The one I had just didn't do it for me. Traded it to the guy who built my 5E3. What I found was that at the volumes necessary to not disturb the house I just couldn't get the feel out of the amp. Sure, it could OD quite well, but the cleans were non-existant. I kept turning up the vol just so I could feel what was going on with the music. To me, they're a novelty .. a niche market. We crank our amps because they sound good cranked. Something has to be attenuated if we want that same feel at "bedroom levels". And I think part of what's being attenuated is the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 What I found was that at the volumes necessary to not disturb the house I just couldn't get the feel out of the amp. Sure, it could OD quite well, but the cleans were non-existant. I kept turning up the vol just so I could feel what was going on with the music. This has to be a big part of the equation. The sound of a cranked amp won't feel right at bedroom levels because you won't feel anything, you'll only hear it. It's the same with trying to get the sound of a symphony orchestra at bedroom levels. It doesn't work. Or the sound of effects in a movie. When my family complains that I turn the sound up to much I tell them that if we had real explosions in our family room they'd be loud and you'd feel them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Ted Weber makes some very affordable attenuators. Most of which use a real speaker motor. In theory you get the same reaction from your amp and no tranny blows. The one I had just didn't do it for me. Traded it to the guy who built my 5E3.What I found was that at the volumes necessary to not disturb the house I just couldn't get the feel out of the amp. Sure, it could OD quite well, but the cleans were non-existant. I kept turning up the vol just so I could feel what was going on with the music. To me, they're a novelty .. a niche market. We crank our amps because they sound good cranked. Something has to be attenuated if we want that same feel at "bedroom levels". And I think part of what's being attenuated is the tone. +1 tulk. That is the feeling I experienced trying to use them at home levels. I dont even really get a sense of tonal bliss using low watt amps at home as I still cant use them at a level that is making the power amp and speaker work properly. Sometimes, and Im a bit loath to admit it, I prefer a pod xt live direct into a mixing desk and through the monitors. Theres no real bloom or feel but it can, to some extent, sound alright.( Im talking about midnight levels) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum13 Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I got one of the Weber units to use with my STR Swart. It is real loud at the 5 (so called) watts with the boost on and cranked past 12:00. Since it's a tweed tone it's good for that "reeling in the years' tone but as it's got a on - off switch... after a while it stayed in the "off" I cut down the boost and use my Throback to cut the input volume and hit the sweet spot. After a while, I stopped using it, lost dynamics and high end. It sucked too much tone from the Goodsell and the Ampeg plays better clean. Guess you need to either try them all with each combo of amps and types of music, get a bunch of really low watt valve amps or a modeler. How much $$$ do you plan to drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I read this article about Fluxtone Technology. Sounds interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 He's using Field Coil speakers. Did you visit his site and see his prices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitArtMan Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I read this article about Fluxtone Technology. Sounds interesting. Seems like a cool idea until you see the price. OMG!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzpunk Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 I use an Ultimate Attenuator. I can hear the fan but only when I'm right in front of it and I dont normally stand within 1 or 2 feet of my amp. I can't hear it at all while playing and if you're going to use it for gigs I can't imagine anyone hearing it, even me. It does not significantly alter tone and for my purposes it's a great choice. Of course tube life will be shortened but it's because you're turning up the amp and pushing the tubes harder, not because of the attenuator. The Ultimate is the only one I've used so I can't speak for any others. I tried lower watt amps but they just didn't do it for me. My 2 cents, and in this economy it's worth even less. Obviously this is another subjective topic. YMMV! I have a small area in which to practice so I am in close proximity to the Ultimate. In my situation, I find the sound of the fan to be annoying but in the conditions you described above I think it would be fine. Most likely I'll be ditching mine but many people give it rave reviews. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 I got one of the Weber units to use with my STR Swart. It is real loud at the 5 (so called) watts with the boost on and cranked past 12:00. Since it's a tweed tone it's good for that "reeling in the years' tone but as it's got a on - off switch... after a while it stayed in the "off" I cut down the boost and use my Throback to cut the input volume and hit the sweet spot. After a while, I stopped using it, lost dynamics and high end. It sucked too much tone from the Goodsell and the Ampeg plays better clean. Guess you need to either try them all with each combo of amps and types of music, get a bunch of really low watt valve amps or a modeler. How much $$$ do you plan to drop? Thanks for all the info guys. This thread has been real helpful. Hey, Spectrum, I gotta ask you how you like the Swart STR. The new STR Tweed is on my short list of amps. I'd love to hear some comments about it! Scooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Holy Moly! I didn't think they were THAT expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rude Dog Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Howdy! A friend has an Ultimate Attenuator and gave me his Dr. Z Air Brake as he doesn't use it anymore. I have played his UA through a Dr Z Route 66 a few times, but not enough to really have an opinion on it. The Air Brake is alright. I only found it useful with my Epi Valve Junior head for really quite playing until... I opened it up and adjusted it with a screw driver last night. Now it's pretty cool with all my amps. You have to tweak the Air Brake setting, then your amp volume back and forth a couple times to get it dialed in so it doesn't get fizzy, or suck tone. It had been monkeyed with before I got it (ie likely not factory settings) so who knows what my setting are like compared to factory. But, you can change the range of attenuation which is cool. It works pretty good now. I might try to do a recording showing what it does this weekend with a couple different amps. I borrowed another friends Weber Mass for awhile and I found it completely useless, but YMMV Woof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul P Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 On a slightly different note I followed the building of a really small amp by a guy in another forum. It was a one tube affair, the tube being a 12ax7. I don't remember what the output was supposed to be but the builder said it would distort nicely at conversation levels. Another trick is to use a really inefficient speaker. When I was building my amp and had it running through a single 6v6 I tested it through an old acoustic suspension hi-fi speaker (so I wouldn't blow up a good speaker if I screwed up) and I could get pretty nice output tube distortion a low volume (maybe not bedroom, but certainly living room). Now with a 12" Eminence Red Fang the amp is really loud and clean (but it's also now running two 6v6s in parallel so that accounts for some of the increase). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rude Dog Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Clip H150, Carmen Ghia, Dr. Z Air Brake - just wanking a bit with lots o' clams... but may give you an idea what it can do - I recorded this in my garage with my 3 year old sleeping in his room right above me. I wouldn't call it "bedroom volume" but pretty darn low. http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7607330 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 ClipH150, Carmen Ghia, Dr. Z Air Brake - just wanking a bit with lots o' clams... but may give you an idea what it can do - I recorded this in my garage with my 3 year old sleeping in his room right above me. I wouldn't call it "bedroom volume" but pretty darn low. http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7607330 Thanks for taking the time to do that, Rude Dog! Very nice. Makes me want to break out all my old Cream tapes! Having your 3 year old sleeping above you and playing with the attenuator on your amp is kinda like the ol' gorilla test on the luggage! Kinda'. Nice playing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rude Dog Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Thanks, Yeah... or poking a hibernating bear with a sharp stick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 Thanks, Yeah... or poking a hibernating bear with a sharp stick! HA! Yeah, that's a bit more acurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 How about the Bad Cat Leash? Just noticed that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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