Big amp, small amp

[JohnCovach]

I realize I'm going against the recent tendency toward smaller amps when I say I prefer to use a bigger amp when space allows. I should begin by admitting that I have a minivan, so space in my vehicle is not really an issue.

 

I prefer the sound of a bigger amp onstage, no matter what's happening with PA and monitors and no matter how good they are. The sound is fuller to my ears, even if I can't get the amp volume past 2 or so in most situations. I get my distortion sounds through my pedalboard, so there's no issue of driving the power tubes, etc., for me.

 

But here's the counter-intuitive element in all this: I actually find my bigger amps easier to move, and thus easier on my hands and back. All of my amps are on casters, so that's a constant in this comparison. But it's the bending over to pick up the small amp, or to push it on its casters, that's a strain. With my 4 x 12 Fender cab, I push it easily while standing straight, and can stack other heavy gear on top of it. I have a Musicman 2 x 10 amp I use for a regular gig we do where space is limited. But it's actually more comfortable to move my AC30 in the road case.

 

Of course, if there are significant stairs involved, this is all quite different!!

[Thundersteel]

I love the sound of my Mesa 4x12, but that thing is heavy!

 

If I have ramps for my truck, I'd use it more often; since I don't it usually stays at home...along with all my other gear, since I don't gig.

[111518]

I realize I'm going against the recent tendency toward smaller amps when I say I prefer to use a bigger amp when space allows. I should begin by admitting that I have a minivan, so space in my vehicle is not really an issue.

 

I prefer the sound of a bigger amp onstage, no matter what's happening with PA and monitors and no matter how good they are. The sound is fuller to my ears, even if I can't get the amp volume past 2 or so in most situations. I get my distortion sounds through my pedalboard, so there's no issue of driving the power tubes, etc., for me.

 

But here's the counter-intuitive element in all this: I actually find my bigger amps easier to move, and thus easier on my hands and back. All of my amps are on casters, so that's a constant in this comparison. But it's the bending over to pick up the small amp, or to push it on its casters, that's a strain. With my 4 x 12 Fender cab, I push it easily while standing straight, and can stack other heavy gear on top of it. I have a Musicman 2 x 10 amp I use for a regular gig we do where space is limited. But it's actually more comfortable to move my AC30 in the road case.

 

Of course, if there are significant stairs involved, this is all quite different!!

 

I do understand your point. I've been using a 2x12 extension cab (with casters) in addition to 1x12 or 1x15 combos for almost all gigs over the last few years, because I also feel that moving more air makes my sound more full, both on stage and out front, AND, it doubles as a cart and an amp stand, and it is not so heavy (v30's) that I can't move it around pretty easily --even up and down a steep staircase in my house.

 

I do find that bigger amps sound "cold" to me running at 2-3. Even though I seldom (actually, never) run any of my amps at full power or high enough volume to really get full-throated power tube distortion, there does seem to be a bit of a threshold below with the amp doesn't have the sort of interactive feel that justifies lugging a tube amp around in the first place. But, I'll also say that I recently got my big amp --100w Rivera- retubed and rebiased, and it seems much more responsive at lower volumes than it has seemed to me over the last couple of years ...so I suspect there are more factors involved in determining that "threshold" than simply wattage rating of amp or volume.

 

I played bass for a while in a band with a guy who played his guitar through a tiny little Galien Kruger amp, which functioned mainly as a monitor, and got all his sound from effects, which mostly meant a lot of delay to create the illusion of a big sound. This in a band that presented itself as a blues band. (My suggestion for a name was Bald, Blind, and White Blues Band. I think that's part of why I eventually got fired.) I hated that sound ...everything from the monitors ... sounded like a Rockman through headphones. So, I do think moving air is part of my sense of the experience of playing on stage.

[tulk1]

After our outdoor gig yesterday, I had been contemplating this very idea. Even after posting in the Sunn thread that I had had enough of hauling massive rigs. The singer and I were discussing the differences in the sound/response when playing outdoors. We'd had the same experience a couple of weeks ago at another outdoor gig - the smaller amps didn't sound as full, and responded differently. I do agree that the bigger rigs, even higher wattages, can sound much fuller even at lower volumes. I know my Lonestar on the 100w setting can sound fuller than say, the Super, at the same perceived volumes. But the idea of lugging around 2x15s or 4x12s just isn't all that appealing. Then again, maybe I just need to suck it up and drag out the 2x12-xcab next outdoor/large stage gig.

[JohnCovach]

One of my bandmates uses this amp for small gigs. This has to be the smallest usable amp out there:

 

lunch box

 

It is loud--no problems there. But I have always found that small amps are kinda "near-field"--that is, they sound good as you are standing in front of them but lose volume quickly as you get away from them. So without the PA to project the sound, the little amp can be a problem, and that can show up in rehearsals where the PA set-up is minimal. I sometimes take my Blues Jr to quick and scaled-down rehearsals. It sounds great as I start to push it, and sounds plenty loud where I am. The other guys across the room complain that they can't hear it very well, though.

[Guest tomdread]

Big amps for me. Ive tried to like little amps and have tried enough to know they dont work for me.

I think 50-60w+ is where Im happiest. I have a Mesa LS head with 10/50/100w and just use 100w.

I have a back injury that forced me to change careers at 41. Would love to find a little 18-30w combo or amp that did what I want.

Ive pretty much settled on 100w heads and 212 cabs. I took my fender concertII out of its combo housing and put it into a mesa head shell. Running it through a framus 212 cab w v30's.Sounds the best Ive heard it after owning it since...1989(I think).

I have an Egnater Tourmaster head on the way and although it has power scaling down to 10w from 100 Im pretty certain that I will run it on 100w.

Its not about volume for me, its about feel and response. I can get great sounds from my LS set to 100w at either loud band levels or midnight home levels. Obviously better when opened up up to let the speakers work.

My H150 is a heavy guitar, carrying in and loading out a heavy amp is not as physically demanding as playing the H150 for 3-4 sets.

[barrymclark]

Depends on what you call a large or small amp, I guess.

 

I have a 90lbs Vox AC50CP2. It is a 50w 2x12" combo amp and has easily enough kick to hang with a band of really about any genre.

 

If I were to play in a metal band though, I'd probably get a 4x12" extension cab just get that nice moving-air sound. Just to feel it in your chest! But... that cab would stay at the practice space and never move outside of shows.

 

Otherwise, its a handtruck for the Vox combo.

[yoslate]

My biggest amp is a relatively small boutique piggy-back with a 2x12 cab. I like it in bigger rooms and outdoors. My current favorite piece of equipment is my smallish but very sturdy hand truck!

[iim7v7im7]

Small amps for me running in their sweet spots is what I like. Additionally, all of my pieces are <30 lb. (that's partially why I prefer heads to combos). Yes, I am limited in size of venue (but then again, a lack of talent and discipline drive that!), but I prefer the sound and most importantly, THE FEEL of an amp in it's sweet spot vs. A more powerful amp not yet opened up with OD pedals can do a nice job in terms of tone, but the, sag,pick dynamics and soulful growl of the fire bottles going from clean to overdrive are not the same to me.

 

My $.02

[mtpatty]

AXE FX: Big Sounds, Small and light= easy to move...

[JohnCovach]

AXE FX: Big Sounds, Small and light= easy to move...

 

Do you run this directly to the PA, or do you use an amp/cab?

[212Mavguy]

My $.02, and that's about all it's worth...

 

Totally agree with the "Peculiar" one for sho.

 

My ears tell me that a small amp can sound pretty big inside a room where there are walls to bounce sound off of...I notice that when filled with people causes a need to bump the treble up a notch or two compared to an almost empty room, but take that little amp ouside and all of a sudden it's thin and in some cases even nasty.

 

So whenever I get the chance to play outside, I bring a Mesa Maverick 2/12 combo semi closed back, or head du jour with 2/12 or a 2/15 semi closed back. Prefer to use paper dust dome equipped JBL MI-12, or G-125 for the 12 inchers, and G-135 for the 2/15's. Warmer, fatter, fuller, much more pleasing outside for any of those compared to the 1/8, 1/10, or 1/12 rigs I/ve heard.

[tulk1]

My $.02, and that's about all it's worth...

 

Totally agree with the "Peculiar" one for sho.

 

My ears tell me that a small amp can sound pretty big inside a room where there are walls to bounce sound off of...I notice that when filled with people causes a need to bump the treble up a notch or two compared to an almost empty room, but take that little amp ouside and all of a sudden it's thin and in some cases even nasty.

 

So whenever I get the chance to play outside, I bring a Mesa Maverick 2/12 combo semi closed back, or head du jour with 2/12 or a 2/15 semi closed back. Prefer to use paper dust dome equipped JBL MI-12, or G-125 for the 12 inchers, and G-135 for the 2/15's. Warmer, fatter, fuller, much more pleasing outside for any of those compared to the 1/8, 1/10, or 1/12 rigs I/ve heard.

It's nice to be loved!

[barrymclark]

If my little MicroCube would do it, I'd use it all the time! Weighs nothing!

[mtpatty]

Do you run this directly to the PA, or do you use an amp/cab?

 

Actually, you have several options... you can go straight to FOHB (PA)...you can use Powered amp into PA; or Powered amp into cabs; or straight into an amp via FX loop; or use powered PA spkrs (like I do)... either way it is the bomb!

[smurph1]

I realize I'm going against the recent tendency toward smaller amps when I say I prefer to use a bigger amp when space allows. I should begin by admitting that I have a minivan, so space in my vehicle is not really an issue.

 

I prefer the sound of a bigger amp onstage, no matter what's happening with PA and monitors and no matter how good they are. The sound is fuller to my ears, even if I can't get the amp volume past 2 or so in most situations. I get my distortion sounds through my pedalboard, so there's no issue of driving the power tubes, etc., for me.

 

But here's the counter-intuitive element in all this: I actually find my bigger amps easier to move, and thus easier on my hands and back. All of my amps are on casters, so that's a constant in this comparison. But it's the bending over to pick up the small amp, or to push it on its casters, that's a strain. With my 4 x 12 Fender cab, I push it easily while standing straight, and can stack other heavy gear on top of it. I have a Musicman 2 x 10 amp I use for a regular gig we do where space is limited. But it's actually more comfortable to move my AC30 in the road case.

 

Of course, if there are significant stairs involved, this is all quite different!!

Most of the places I've played lately are on the first floor, So I could use a large amp if I wanted to, but I just love the sound of a small amp pushed to the limit..(Lots of tube distortion)..That is what I like,,personally..YMMV..

[smurph1]

A lot of it has to do with the volume of the other players..If your other players have their volume under control, then a small amp is fine..If they are cranked to the max..Not so much..

[DC Ron]

Just sold my 2x12 because I couldn't be bothered to lug it 10' to where I play. Now have a 1x10, (3) 1x12 and a 1x15. Don't play out, but find the ability to easily lug/plug/unplug a real plus in actually USING my options. Not that I'm complaining about what I play.

[Dick Seacup]

I have zero problems with modelers and solid-state stuff. With that said, I have to tell you that none of my guitars sound as good through "electronics" as they do through my instructors vintage Twin Reverb. Don't know what it is about that amp, but it loves everything I've ever plugged into it. So, my vote goes for "BIG".

[bolero]

I try to use a cranked 50w amp thru a 4x12 when jamming, but for gigging I have been using a ~35w 1x12 combo, with another small 2x12 plugged into the ext jack to help spread the sound around. I angle them slightly apart so the gtr isn't so directional.

 

I prefer not to use a PA for smaller places, I like being able to open the amp up, sounds better!

[bolero]

....that said, one of the best sounding shows I've been to was CSN&Y, where they were all using small 18w marshall's or deluxes etc...so if you can afford a good sound guy, I'm sure it would be just fine.

 

however most of *us* are probably running the PA from onstage, with no one out front during the show to tweak etc