barrymclark Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 http://line6.com/dt25/index.html As much as I have enjoyed their PODs for quick home recordings in the past, I could just never warm up to their amps. It wasn't that they sounded bad, they just never did anything for me. Just a warmth missing for me. From listening to the online demos (I know, I know) this is easily the best sounding Line6 amp they've ever produced. The major difference? Only a little bit on the front end is digital. The rest is all acheived the old fashioned way. I think really only aspects of the EQ are controlled by software and the rest is the real deal. $900 for the 25w head. About $300 for the extension cab. $1000 for the combo. I have tried to find one of these in a store just to hear. No dice. I have mentioned before I wanted to like Line6 amps soooo bad because I loved the concept. Maybe one day I will still yet. Their approach here, or Bogner's approach, really reminds me of Mesa/Boogie's approach with their 5:50 and Mark V amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I had A Flextone II for about 5 years when i played in a Classic/Hard Rock band..I loved that amp..I could dial up almost any sound that was used in the original recording, save it in a patch, and when we played it onstage, call it up with my footswitch.. It wasn't perfect, but it didn't have to be..The other guitarist was using a Twin Reverb, the bassist used a SWR stack, and we had a "power" drummer if you know what I mean.. But that little 60 watter held its own and sounded great..I'd probably buy another one if I wasn't broke..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Well, that guy demoing the amp sure made it sound good! Odd, but cool guitars, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I know a guitarist that had a line 6 valve amp. He had it fixed two times before Line 6 gave up and sent him a new amp. I've heard on their spyder amps, there's been a problem with the black screen of death. I have a pocket pod and for what it cost, it wouldn't bother me too much if it went belly up. a $1000 tube amp? Now that's a problem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I know a guitarist that had a line 6 valve amp. He had it fixed two times before Line 6 gave up and sent him a new amp. I've heard on their spyder amps, there's been a problem with the black screen of death. I have a pocket pod and for what it cost, it wouldn't bother me too much if it went belly up. a $1000 tube amp? Now that's a problem....understood but I wasn't speaking to reliability....as I have never owned a Line6 amp long enough to do so. I was meaning the sound of the amp. Without the sound, do we ever get to the question of reliability? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdelaney72 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Modeling has it's place...they can be versatile for playing out live, but there's never gonna be a replacement for the real thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 understood but I wasn't speaking to reliability....as I have never owned a Line6 amp long enough to do so. I was meaning the sound of the amp. Without the sound, do we ever get to the question of reliability? I don't. Line 6 has the best modeling that sounds the closest to the real thing, but wdelany is right... There really isn't a substitute for the real thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Line 6 has the best modeling that sounds the closest to the real thing, but wdelany is right... There really isn't a substitute for the real thing... I whole heartedly disagree... but that is another thread. ALL I care about is if it sounds good. Not if it sounds like 'x' amp it is modeled after. That way, my Roland can hang with about anything. So can many an amp. I'd say, for me, one of the biggest let down brands for sound tends to be Marshall. PARTICULARLY their older models. You know... the ones people seem to want and I am more than willing to let them have at insane prices. haha. Now... amps that used the Marshalls as inpiration... those I often like. Which is weird. haha. Same with Fender. I tend to not like the real thing... save for a few models. Amps based on them... I tend to dig more. Again... which is weird. haha. So... keep in mind I don't look to modeling amps to be modelers. That actually isn't why I got the Roland. I got it because of its clean sound which happens to be a model of the JC amps Roland also makes. Whether or not it is JUST like the real thing... I can't say. It just sounds damn good in my hands. Maybe not in another player's hands. Just so happens the other amp tones it gets, regardless of how close they are to the amps they intend to model, most of them are actually pretty scary good sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The review in the UK magazine 'Guitarist' raves about it except for the Vox emulation which isn't quite there. My local music shop has one - I'll have a look this weekend with a PRS Studio I like playing there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I whole heartedly disagree... but that is another thread. ALL I care about is if it sounds good. Not if it sounds like 'x' amp it is modeled after. That way, my Roland can hang with about anything. So can many an amp. Not to call you out... but If the Roland was so great, you wouldn't be doing the Starlite..... The clone amps are becoming a big business. That's why so many "boutique" builders are being so successful. They are fixing the little issues with the amps of old, and reintroducing them without cost cutting corners such as PCB or DSP. I could of very easily picked up a Fender Superchamp XD again, but I like the tube amps and decided to stick with them. Even though this new one has a PCB board, it has a simple design that can be fixed if broken because it lacks all those little "extras" so many modeling amps have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 The clone amps are becoming a big business. That's why so many "boutique" builders are being so successful. They are fixing the little issues with the amps of old, and reintroducing them without cost cutting corners such as PCB or DSP. I could of very easily picked up a Fender Superchamp XD again, but I like the tube amps and decided to stick with them. Even though this new one has a PCB board, it has a simple design that can be fixed if broken because it lacks all those little "extras" so many modeling amps have...yeah. The extras are what I dont like. Just more crap to go wrong. Not to call you out... but If the Roland was so great, you wouldn't be doing the Starlite..... Not calling me out at all. In fact, your calling me out falls short of doing just that. Just because the Roland is great at what it does... doesn't mean it does everything I want an amp to do. THAT'S the reason for the Starlite. That in NO way means the Roland isn't a great amp. It is. In fact, it may well be a keeper when the Starlite may or may not be. Is it my PERFECT amp? No. Is it a great amp? For me, yes. What I find wrong with it: Too much crap. Complicated and difficult to fix. The Marshall JMP amp model.... but then... I don't care for the actual JMP amp. So... yeah. The Triple Rectifier model sounds like those import car exhausts that sounds like one long razzberry on a baby's stomach. The acoustic simulator.... nope. Not for me. The Dyna one... no thanks. What I find right about it: The Jazz Chorus, Fender Twin, Deluxe Reverb, Vox AC30TB and the Peavey 5150. Now... these amps may not be just like the originals in terms of their best sounding examples... but they are ISH.... and sound very good. The only way I could imagine selling the Roland is if I had a few amps that do what I like about the Roland. Maybe the Starlite is a start to that... maybe it isn't. We will have to see. If the Starlite does the breaky-uppy clean like the Fenders and Vox.... I get another that does the high gain like the 5150 I get another does the clean like the JC model on the Roland... Then... the Roland may be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Now you're talking.... I've considered a modeling amp for very low volume/headphone conditions. But my pocketpod works for now. The Starlite is a brilliant idea that I'm looking forward to seeing the real thing. Modeling amps do have their issues, but as to what they are meant for, they are rather good and keep improving over the years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Now you're talking.... I've considered a modeling amp for very low volume/headphone conditions. But my pocketpod works for now. The Starlite is a brilliant idea that I'm looking forward to seeing the real thing. Modeling amps do have their issues, but as to what they are meant for, they are rather good and keep improving over the years...that may be the one reason I keep the Roland. A writing tool for tone reference so I am not firing up an army of amps for a 2 am riff idea. Haha ...and based on the success of the Starlite, I have been pondering another amp. Wait til you hear about the KBP Bourbon amp idea. This all assumes all goes well with the Starlite and Brian takes the job. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Roland makes great quality stuff, everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Bourbon Amp? .... One Bourbon, one Scotch, and one beer........ Some reason it just screams out rocking blues slide guitar.... Needs to have 15" speaker and covered in lacquered tweed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Bourbon Amp? .... One Bourbon, one Scotch, and one beer........ Some reason it just screams out rocking blues slide guitar.... Needs to have 15" speaker and covered in lacquered tweed... You'd be surprised.... it's not. I figured some (to be read as 'most') would get that impression. I suppose it could be use for hard blues. But... the name Bourbon was derived from the model it is based on. Although... the laquered tweed and/or burgundy tolex is the look I am going for. Will be the yin to the Starlite's yang. "Ain't nothin' wrong with my yang." -Eddie Murphy, The Golden Child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yavuz Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Great Amp!! I've always liked the sound of EL84s. I think these amps should not be seen as the modeling amps. Bogner has made great amps and they have their own character. Marshalls started as Fender mods. So did Mesa Boogies. But they have a name of their own now. If you think about it the main difference between most amps are their voicings... ( Class A, B, AB etc.. ) I see Line DT25 as a nice tube amp. All the modern features like pentode-triode, Class A-B switches, also exist in newer Boogies. What is classic and what is not is another debate. I can easily say Carlos Santana signature sound is a classic and that is derived from a Boogie. Boogie started as a Fender Princeton mod but now, it is far from it. Since Boogie is considered to be modern amp, should we consider Santana's as modern or classic? See what I mean? If you make your living off of a top40-wedding band, modeling will be handy for you. You have to come close to a lot of different guitar sounds. You might go for one sound or two, even three as your signature sound. For instance, you can decide to have a a very clean sound for chords ( like a jazz player ), and you might decide a bluesy drive sound for lead with a British type of sound. Even then, carrying one amp instead of two is great. I have been playing for 35 years ( since I was 10 ), and I can sound the same thru many different guitars and amps, after tweaking a few minutes. I still go for new equipment every now and then because they excite/inspire me. I think the bottom line for me is that the new Line6 DT25 is a great tube amp. And, I think I liked the sound enough to go to a store and demo one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Here's my issue with the amp... On the outside it appears to be like any other tube amp on the market, but when you hook up a stomp box modeler like the Pod HD's to it, it can be altered. This tells me there are microchip processors in this amp. To me, those are the parts that will fail. Unfortunately, this is where Line 6 fails. They rely on computer processors instead of analog circuitry. (Same reason why I think the Gibson Firebird X is such a failure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Here's my issue with the amp... On the outside it appears to be like any other tube amp on the market, but when you hook up a stomp box modeler like the Pod HD's to it, it can be altered. This tells me there are microchip processors in this amp. To me, those are the parts that will fail. Unfortunately, this is where Line 6 fails. They rely on computer processors instead of analog circuitry. (Same reason why I think the Gibson Firebird X is such a failure) TBH, I think this is where the Egnater Tweaker, based on the idea alone, wins big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 TBH, I think this is where the Egnater Tweaker, based on the idea alone, wins big time. Almost bought one of those until I discoverd the Egnator line is made in China. I rather like the Tweaker and the Rebel, but I wanted a US built amp. I had too many chinese made amps that were questionable... The only Chinese made amp I'd ever consider again is Jet City only because Mike Soldano was very strict on how those amps were made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 Almost bought one of those until I discoverd the Egnator line is made in China. I rather like the Tweaker and the Rebel, but I wanted a US built amp. I had too many chinese made amps that were questionable... The only Chinese made amp I'd ever consider again is Jet City only because Mike Soldano was very strict on how those amps were made. Yeah. That is why Roland isn't really something I question too much. Same thing. I haven't yet heard anything about how well Egnater holds up. I think there is only one line of Egnater amps that are made in the US. That being the Modular one. I think.... there might be one more. I believe Peavey is making at least some of their amps like the Classic series here in the US again. Edit: Double checked. the 6505, 3120, Penta, Classic are all made in the US. Nada on the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Yeah. That is why Roland isn't really something I question too much. Same thing. I haven't yet heard anything about how well Egnater holds up. I think there is only one line of Egnater amps that are made in the US. That being the Modular one. I think.... there might be one more. I believe Peavey is making at least some of their amps like the Classic series here in the US again. Edit: Double checked. the 6505, 3120, Penta, Classic are all made in the US. Nada on the others. I've heard good results on the Tweaker and Rebel 20 head, but the Rebel 30 combo has issues.... I had a Peavey Valveking. Fanstastic tone, but poor reliability. I went through three of them before I got one that worked. Sold it after a few months out of fear it would suffer the same issues as the previous two. Made in China Peavey. I specifically chose the Peavey Delta Blues because it was a Made In USA Classic series... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I've heard good results on the Tweaker and Rebel 20 head, but the Rebel 30 combo has issues.... I had a Peavey Valveking. Fanstastic tone, but poor reliability. I went through three of them before I got one that worked. Sold it after a few months out of fear it would suffer the same issues as the previous two. Made in China Peavey. I specifically chose the Peavey Delta Blues because it was a Made In USA Classic series... I definitely understand and will admit to be just as weary of asian import built amps. Not to say there aren't some great quality ones... but you really gotta do your research. USA made is typically a better bet. German made is another safe bet. Japanese made is usually pretty good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 If I didn't find the amp I found, almost bought a Laney VC 30 that was UK made... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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