Spectrum13 Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Millenniums have model options with trapeze or stop tails. Is this just a style thing or will the stop tail sustain better, effect string tension, be more rock than jazz? Your thoughts and opinions welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesultra Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I would tend to think that you'd get better sustain with the stoptail, because it doesn't move. A trapeze will have a bit of movement/flex to it. As for the rest, I really can't comment with much (if any) accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Wrap tail makes the strings feel more "slinky" in my experience. I guess that means less tension, but I'm not an expert and I haven't slept in a Holiday Inn Express since...well, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I have the two different set ups on two fairly different guitars; of course the set ups are, in large measure, why the two guitars are different. But there are other differences as well, so I couldn't say specifically what accounts for the tonal differences and sustain in the two instruments. My 576 is a laminated-top, all maple hollow body, with a block, stop tailpiece, 2 3/4 inches deep, and 16 inches at the hip. My Super Eagle has a solid spruce top with maple back and sides, no block, floating bridge with a trapeze, 3 inches deep, and 18 inches at the hip. I'd guess the bracing patterns are different, as well. So I don't know that a comparison or contrast regarding bridge set ups on these two guitars is really legit. That being said.... The Super does feed back more readily than the 576, but not uncontrollably, and I do ask slightly less of the Super in terms of its relationship to the amp...no pedals. That guitar goes straight into the amp. The 576, into the same amp, will sometimes go through a delay unit and some mild overdrive. It'll feed back under those conditions, too, but I have to coax it just a little. I bring the feedback issue up because I think it speaks, in part, to the difference in tailpiece (and bridge) set up. The Super feedback is very resonant in that the whole box jumps, lots of moving air; the 576 feedback is a bit more like the feedback you'd get from a solid body, more something that starts with good string sustain. Think in terms of what you get when you pluck the longer strings running between a floating bridge and a trapeze. They're much more resonant than what you get from the much shorter string running from a bridge to a stop tailpiece. I think that resonance between the bridge and the trapeze dissipates some of the energy that on the stoptailed guitar turns into sustain. This point would dovetail with what davesultra observed. Thus the 576 sustains more like you'd expect from a solid body, which would have the similar bridge/tailpiece set up. I can't speak to string tension because the scale lengths on the two guitars are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Flying Bird Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 This really only applies to playing an electric acoustically. When you add the amp your Heritage will sustain just fine no matter what type of hardware you are using. I have access to 3 types of tail pieces. Trapeze, Stop & Bigsby. All 3 will give "plenty of" / "enough" sustain. Get the one you like the looks of for the particular guitar you are interested in and, "just play the f***ing thing!" :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 This really only applies to playing an electric acoustically. When you add the amp your Heritage will sustain just fine no matter what type of hardware you are using. I have access to 3 types of tail pieces. Trapeze, Stop & Bigsby. All 3 will give "plenty of" / "enough" sustain. Get the one you like the looks of for the particular guitar you are interested in and, "just play the f***ing thing!" :wink: Yep, Yoslate's line is starting to take off. Maybe the new Heritage slogan??!! Probably not, but I bet you'd reach out to that 17-28 year old market they are looking for!!! > > :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_black Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I have guitars with both. But most of those with trapeze tailpieces are either hollow body or semi-hollow. Trapeze tailpieces take the stress of the string tension off the top of the guitar - more critical for hollow bodies, especially when you go to heavier gauges (13s or 14s). Some guitarists like the extra resonance you get with a trapeze tailpiece. That extra bit of string can resonate sympathetically with strummed or picked notes. This may be more useful acoustically then through a pickup. Trapeze tailpieces also allow you to create a fake whammy effect - raising the pitch - without putting stress on the neck. Personally, I wouldn't do it (either one). Actually some guitarist have whammy bars installed to get the same effect a trapeze will get you. For solid body guitars, I prefer a stop tailpiece unless I want a whammy bar, like on a Strat or a Jackson. For semi-hollow bodies, either one works. I would suggest visiting your friendly guitar store and trying out a 335 or similar with both tailpieces and going with the one you like best on your Heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikenov Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Unless drilling is neccesary, I am getting tone pros added to my Gold H140 replacing the original Schaller tailpiece and bridge. I would love to hear anyone's feedback who has done this switch in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Unless drilling is neccesary, I am getting tone pros added to my Gold H140 replacing the original Schaller tailpiece and bridge. I would love to hear anyone's feedback who has done this switch in the past. I replaced the Schaller tailpiece and bridge on my original 555. No drilling- get the smaller diameter studs. I also opted for the aluminun light weight tailpiece. They claim more sustail than the regular (heavier) one. Bottom line: LOVE the tone pros stuff. The allen wrench locking mechanism, means the bridge & tail piece don't move at all even when all the stings are off (no resetting up the guitar after cleaning with the strings off) Sustain: Jay told me that Seymore Ducan did some very critical & calulating studies in a Nashville bridge & stoptail vs Schaller bridge & tailpiece. The reason Jay only orders nashivlle bidge & stoptail is because the results showed 25-30% more sustail than the Schaller stuff. I personally did notice an increase in sustain (although I think 20-30% is pushing it). As far as the extra $80 or so for the aluminum stoptail vs their regular- I don't know if it sounds any better (PRS uses aluminum stoptails on their top end $5k & up guitars) but the difference in weight is amazing- much lighter. You would think what 6-8oz would be that noticible, but it is. I have nashville bridge/stoptails on all my guitars, I just wished Heritage would have billed me the extra $50-75 for the locking version!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikenov Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Thanks kuz, thats sort of what I was looking for. I am getting the locking tailpiece to replace the schaller hardware. All part of my nutwork. I am off work this week and eagerly anticipating the return of my axes. I will file a tone report once I have chance to hear it. The Gold guitar deffinately didn't sustain like the cherry burst. It was noticeable. Then again, the H150 is probably 5 to 6 lbs heavier, and thicker. It could just be the wood. I can't wait to hear it either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Not to hijack the thread, but I'm considering using these instead of the Tone Pros: http://cvgshop.com/p50/Faber-Tone-Lock--IN...4f79b7d857ab06a They supposedly have more contact area. They also have a similar mechanism for the bridge coming as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 I'm looking to how both of your guitars sound with the new hardware!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum13 Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 On my 150 (from Jay supplied with non-locking tone pros) I replaced the bridge with the locking Nashville but used the Faber tone lock on the tail...cheaper and simpler than the tone pro system. Changing strings and cleaning the frets & boards will not require a new setup & intonation since nothing moves. Used the extra washers from the Faber to lock down the wraptail on my 137. The Gotoh and Faber aluminum tail pieces are cheaper than tone pros. My original question had to do with the Millys coming in stop tail or traps like in 155 or Eagle so yes it will only apply to semi-solid or semi hollow. Curious why Heritage does it different on basically the same axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Just to join foray - The DC and Prospect I've spec'd out are both with Tone Pros. From reading the comments, did I need to specify "locking" tone pros? Thought thats what they were all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Just to join foray - The DC and Prospect I've spec'd out are both with Tone Pros. From reading the comments, did I need to specify "locking" tone pros? Thought thats what they were all about. I think you will be OK, but you know with our boys it never hurts to clarify & confirm. And again, and again, and again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Maestro Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Being a bender style player...I have noticed that the extra length the string have with the trapazoidal style promotes less tension on the strings during bends. my livest guitars that have the strongest sustain are guitars that have more tension, 10-52 strings with locking nuts and blocked solid floyd bridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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