cosmikdebriis Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 It seems to me that the Schaller pickups used on certain H models devalue the guitars and likewise the brand. I appreciate that you can specify an upgrade but the point here is whether the option of a cheap pickup is good for the company image. Kind of like Porsche releasing the new 911 with an optional moped engine discuss and vote... Please Remember... The vote is on the affect on the company image rather than the pickups themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 i think the schalles are good pups, not the best, but certainly not the worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 There is probably some story behind why they use Schallers as their main pups/hrdware. I'd venture to guess that when they started the company Schaller was willing to work with them, front the gear, etc. Most likely a very long standing relationship they wish to maintain. Just a wag on my part, tho'. Not sure I have any Schallers, tho'. My 157 has SD 59's and I've not pulled them in the 535 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorgen-Denmark Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Could be that Schaller and Heritage made a deal back in the old days. I think to recall, that Kramer, PRS, Music Man and a lot of other vendors offered Scaller pup's as well those days. Another reason could be, that in the jazz/blues community the Schallers have had a great reputation. Just a guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggy1972 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I think they sound good but, not in a screaming type way. They sound more vintage kinda 57 style. Could be the H170 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I'll have to check, but I seem to recall reading that Schaller made hardware for Gibson back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggy1972 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaller_Guitarenparts By order of the man himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeneri Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Well I'm of the Blues/Jazz community and never even heard of them beyond their being stock on the Heritages. The Schallers are the most disappointing aspect now that they have the PLEK machine. For comparably priced Jazz boxes, D'angelico, Stromberg, and Eastman all use the Korean Kent Armstrongs. I think these are comparable in price to the Schallers. The more expensive hand wound KAs were stock on the Benedettos before they starting making their own pickups. Heritage should either switch to the Kent Armstrongs (comparable cost) or simply include a choice of Seymour Duncans for a small price increase. It would help cement their rep as the premium US made factory guitars (as opposed to a certain "lifestyle" brand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeneri Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Forgot to add, using the HRW's as stock would also be a readily available improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 For comparably priced Jazz boxes, D'angelico, Stromberg, and Eastman all use the Korean Kent Armstrongs. I think these are comparable in price to the Schallers. The more expensive hand wound KAs were stock on the Benedettos before they starting making their own pickups. Heritage should either switch to the Kent Armstrongs (comparable cost) or simply include a choice of Seymour Duncans for a small price increase. It would help cement their rep as the premium US made factory guitars (as opposed to a certain "lifestyle" brand). ingeneri: Funny you should post this today. Quartet of young "jazz guys," accomplished musicians all, showed up at the blues jam last night. Sheila put them up together, at their request. One guitarist, who's just enlisted in the Navy, auditioning for the Navy jazz band and winning the guitar seat, had a new D'angelico in tow. Plugged straight into a RI Deluxe and launched into some Montgomery. Fantastic tone, and a primo young player, to boot! A real treat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmikdebriis Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 A few people have mentioned the possibility of a deal with Schaller at the beginning of H's production. Good point and certainly very plausible. However, even if they were getting a BIG discount from Schaller, then personally, I'd rather add $200 to the price of the guitar for decent SD's or similar (SD's probably the best name from a marketing point of view). And at that price you could probably have both Still, the crux of the biscuit (so to speak) is the affect the Schallers have on the company image. :- A quick look at the H web site models/specs pages will show certain guitars advertised as having SD's or HRW's whereas others are listed as having "Two chrome humbucking pickups" Now to me that sounds like even H are ashamed of the equipment ??? Nice to get you jazz guys perspective too Also... Anyone know where/by whom the HRW's are made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I've noticed that when looking at Jay's site, it will usually tell what pups are installed. If the ad doesn't mention them, or if it just says, "chrome pickups," then they are the Schallers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Maybe they say "chrome pickups" with no brand so that they have some room to maneuver (manoeuvre for those who prefer their ale to go in at the same temperature it comes out ) should they have a supply issue with the Schallers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmikdebriis Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 Maybe they say "chrome pickups" with no brand so that they have some room to maneuver (manoeuvre for those who prefer their ale to go in at the same temperature it comes out ) should they have a supply issue with the Schallers? Verily I say unto thee... If I'm paying good heard earned cash for a guitar, then I'd expect to know what pickups were in it. ??? Forsooth... I very much doubt Robin Hood didn't know what wood his bows were made out of Whilst we're on the subject... Have a go at the various Robin Hood characters as a spoonerism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 If I'm paying good heard earned cash for a guitar, then I'd expect to know what pickups were in it. ??? Easy enough to find out...just remove them! Have a go at the various Robin Hood characters as a spoonerism... The only Spooner I can think of, off the top of my head, is Lysander. I'm reasonably certain that isn't what you meant, however. I do know what a spoonerism is, though. Maid Marian doesn't work very well. Little John? Ahhh...Friar Tuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Dump the Schallers and stick to the best quality pickups...Period! Seymour Duncans, HRW's, etc. Some have theorized that those wonderful sounding HRW's are actually Rendall Wahl's modified (re-wound) Schallers. Whatever, they are certainly highly regarded and probably the most Top Secret item from Heritage. You can't even buy them aftermarket!! Heritage has really come up in the guitar market. Get the best electronics, hardware and pickups to match the great wood and luthiery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthpawGuy Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I'll have to check, but I seem to recall reading that Schaller made hardware for Gibson back in the day. The chrome hardware on my early nineties LP Standard is Schaller . A few people have mentioned the possibility of a deal with Schaller at the beginning of H's production. Good point and certainly very plausible. However, even if they were getting a BIG discount from Schaller, then personally, I'd rather add $200 to the price of the guitar for decent SD's or similar (SD's probably the best name from a marketing point of view). And at that price you could probably have both Still, the crux of the biscuit (so to speak) is the affect the Schallers have on the company image. :- A quick look at the H web site models/specs pages will show certain guitars advertised as having SD's or HRW's whereas others are listed as having "Two chrome humbucking pickups" Now to me that sounds like even H are ashamed of the equipment ??? Nice to get you jazz guys perspective too Also... Anyone know where/by whom the HRW's are made? I seem to remember someone from the HOC saying in another thread that they were made for Heritage by Schaller . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmikdebriis Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 This debate on whether Schaller make the HRW's is very interesting... Reverting back to the original question, which was the affect the use of Schaller, as a make, had on Heritages image... Then even it's got to make sense to get pickups made under your own name/design rather than a make that are seen perhaps as inferior. That would be a good business move Ultimately, of course, if the pickups are crap then you will be found out but I think it's the way forward. Another quick question... Would you guys rather buy a 150 with Gibbon or SD pups? The simple reason for the question is to determine if an H could stand against a Gibbon on pickup quality alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider313 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I believe the Schaller connection goes back to the mid- late 70's with Gilson. Actually a great "bang for the buck" set of humbuckers are the Dimarzio PAF. These are supposed to be very balanced with nice pronounced mids and smooth highs. For $59. retail, Heritage would pay about $28. wholesale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnH555 Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Public perception is important, probably more than whether or not Schaller pickups sound good. If the name on them was Lollar, Heritage would sell more guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmikdebriis Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Public perception is important, probably more than whether or not Schaller pickups sound good. If the name on them was Lollar, Heritage would sell more guitars. Well said... I'm in agreement with you there. It's the perceived quality that matters. Heritage are under selling themselves with Schallers simply because people believe them to be a cheap(er) option, regardless of how good they actually are (or aren't). Imagine being out at a gig somewhere with your 150. Chances are someone's going to inquire about it. Probably pass favorable comment too. Thing is after you've told them all about Kalamazoo, studied the flame finish etc. Are you honestly going to say. "Yes and it's got Schaller pickups too" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblazer Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I think the Schallers are decent repros of the originals, reliable and very well made. I liked the sound, but my Seth Lover's are more in keeping with what I like to hear. It's extrememley hard for a small company to mass produce a line of guitars with pickup options, so at any given time they've got to pick one and I think Schaller has served them very well for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I believe the Schaller connection goes back to the mid- late 70's with Gilson. Actually a great "bang for the buck" set of humbuckers are the Dimarzio PAF. These are supposed to be very balanced with nice pronounced mids and smooth highs. For $59. retail, Heritage would pay about $28. wholesale. I've got Dimarzio PAF's on my late-80s LP Standard (the one I play in those YouTube instructional videos)--I bought them almost ten years ago. They are indeed nice pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 If Schaller pickups "devalue" so much a Heritage guitar, what should I make of the "Golden Age for Heritage" pickups that came originally on my H-157? "Vintage vibe for under $50" does StewMac's listing claim for their line of Golden Ages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Flying Bird Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I voted "don't care." because I am ignorant of the different designs outputs. I am fairly sure that my ASB 535 has Schallers. The gold 535 has something a bit hotter. The next time I change strings I plan on finding out what they are. I played the gold 535 for 10 months before I broke out the ASB 535. The ASB 535 had a much gentler tone. I like that. I want the amp to give me the volume and distortion with the sound of the wood in it's purest form coming out of the guitar. (huh huh he said wood.) John Covach made a good point in a post about the TV Jones' pickups. That might be the way to go. I'll tell you one thing. If I have to change the pickups in one of my 535s I will snip the wires and not look back. I was an electronic prototype designer for 14 1/2 years and have the best manual skills you will find in that industry but I wouldn't dream of fishing all of those components out of the body and back into it. I think I would rather get stuck inside a cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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