zeittgeist Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I saw JazzyDave's posting for a Bambino in the Marketplace. I was immediately taken with the looks of this guitar, but have absolutely no personal experience with Benedetto in general or the Bambino in particular, other then a couple of hours on the web researching. So I am looking for insights from those who have owned or played a Bambino. The finest guitars in my experience, so far, are the two Sweet 16's I currently own. How would the Bambino compare? I have read about the construction and dimension differences, so I am really asking about the total sensory experience differences. Is it as joyous to hold and behold as the Sweet 16? How does it compare sonically? Does it feel like a step or a step down? Is there another Heritage model that would be a better comparison? I understand the personal and subject nature of these questions make them especially difficult to pin down. But I would be really grateful or any thoughts on the matter. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I've heard very good things about the Bambino. I had some interest some time ago, but, at the time, the guitar was just a tad too expensive. These days, I have 7 archtops, so I'm not in the market. Benedetto's are very well made though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeneri Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I am selling my Benedetto Bambino Deluxe through archtop.com after buying a 525. So there's your answer (ha ha)! Seriously, the Bambino is a fantastic guitar. It's a fantastic design built to address 21st century needs and executed with perfect craftsmanship. But, I was never able to really bond with it. The small dimension actually felt awkward and, for some reason, the neck would make my hand would cramp up. Now the nut width is the same on the Bambino as on the Heritage (as opposed ot the 3/4" on most Benedettos) and shape is actually slimmer. But the 525 neck, like all four Heritages I've owned, just fits perfectly. Acousticly the Bambino is very loud for such a small laminate but won't hold up to a Sweet 16 or Golden Eagle. It's not meant to. I had the Deluxe model with F-holes, the regular version would likely be even softer. It's a fully hollow thin electric laminate box, with the nearest Heritage models being the 525 or perhaps the Groovemaster. Where Heritage could really learn something from Benedetto is customer service. I called when I first got the guitar and stupidly couldn't figure out how to get the 6th string in the iconic tailpiece. Bob Benedetto himself called me back within hours. Later on, I sent an email asking about the neck shape. Instead of getting a dry corporate email with some specifications I got a warm personalized email from Bob Benedetto. The service was so good, I actually feel guilty for selling the guy's guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I can't give the learned information on a Benedetto like Ingeneri, but I can say what I have heard from those playing one is just great! Can say the same for Heritage. For my hands, though, Heritage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 i've got no personal experience, but the word of mouth is that they are excellent quality..Better than a Heritage? Doubt it, but like I said, I have no personal experience..But the photos of the Bambino in the Marketplace are breathtaking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum13 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 They are first class people building some of the best archtops today. Last winter they were most gracious to let my family tour their factory. Bob himself gave us an hour of his time. His handmade stuff is as good as it gets. He builds current state of the art very lightweight with D shaped thin necks. Some of us like em like Gibson made them in the 50s and 60s, The solid wood stuff starts at something like $14,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeittgeist Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 I am selling my Benedetto Bambino Deluxe through archtop.com after buying a 525. So there's your answer (ha ha)! Very interesting. May I ask why you opted for a H525 instead of a Sweet 16? And how is the weight on the H525? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ingeneri Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I already owned a Super Eagle and a 575 I modded with P-90s(recently purchased by Marty Gras). I decided that I really only needed one carved top since I always used the Super Eagle whenever the weather was appropriate. I have a solid topped Japanese D'angelico NYL2 that I use when it's too cold or hot for the Super Eagle. But, the Super Eagle is 18" and the D'angelico is 17", so I feel I need a smaller guitar for travel given the rigors of plane travel. I originally got the 575 for travel, but, while an amazing guitar, it was a bit thick and heavy for this purpose. Last year I got the Benedetto as an altenative to replace the 575. But, like I wrote earlier, it never felt quite right and I couldn't bring myself to part witht he 575 even though it was spending way too much time in its case. The 525 is a thinline laminate with P-90s and just seemed like the perfect combination of the two guitars for my purposes. It's about as light as the Bambino Deluxe, the same thickness, and only a bit wider (16" vs. 14.5"). I've only had it a week, and it's not even properly set up yet, but it's already my second favorite guitar after the Super Eagle. On the other hand, while the Bambino Deluxe never gelled for me, I just saw Pat Martino kill at Chris Jazz Cafe using the chambered LP style solid body Benny Benedetto designed for him. As for the handbuilt carved tops, there's a reason Bob Benedetto is considered the premier archtop guitar luthier and the heir to D'angelico and D'aquisto. Both Heritage and Benedetto are small companies run by legendary luthiers making great guitars in the United States. I really wanted to bond with my Benedetto, but in the end I'm just a Hertage guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I would agree with almost all of what ingeneri has posted here on the comparisons between Benedetto and Heritage guitars and guitar quality. As he has said, the comparisons between the Sweet 16 and the Bambino are difficult to accurately assess because they are two very different instruments, designed and created for different playing situations. However, the Sweet 16 is by far, the more "crafted" instrument . . in that it is carved as opposed to laminated. With regard to execution of craftsmanship; they are both finely made instruments . . . but, I would say that the Benedetto is probably more consistent in its "flawlessness" than is Heritage. Don't get me wrong, Heritage does in fact produce many "flawless" guitars. I'm sure of it because I own quite a few of them. But, for the same reasons that Heritage is more consistent in its execution than Gibson, so is Benedetto than Heritage. Benedetto is a smaller, and much more of a boutique shop than Heritage. The occasional "flaws", which might slip by at Heritage are more likely to be caught and corrected at Benedetto. I've played 3 different top model Benedetto's . . all of which were older models and made by Bob himself . . unlike the Bambinos. They are truly remarkable guitars. However, I personally prefer the tone and the playability of each of my Heritage arch tops over all three of the Benedettos I played . . . especially my new Golden Eagle Custom. Where I would probably debate ingeneri, is on his claim that Bob Benedetto is the premier arch top builder and heir to D'Angelico and D'Aquisto. I would respectfully ask ingeneri to revisit his opinion after he had an opportunity to see and play one of John Monteleone's arch tops. But, then again, when there are 2 luthiers at the levels of John Monteleone and Bob Benedetto . . . who the heck am I to try to determine which is better? So, I would just say that they are easily the top 2 luthiers . . . then we could debate who is number one and who is number 2. http://www.monteleone.net/ I have a wonderful Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith Artist Award. Like the Bambinos, it is a Benedetto designed (or refined) guitar built by craftsmen that he personally trained. It is truly . . . flawless!! As is my two Heritage built D'Angelicos. To see them, play them and hear them . . . one would think that John himself built them when he was at the top of his craft. Maybe I'll stuff them into the Expedition and bring them along to PSPIV . . . just for show and tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I'm with Ingeneri on this one. As sexy, unique and expensive as the Bambino is, it still is a laminate archtop. However, it is one of the world's finest, handmade lam jazz boxes in my opinion. So are the 550 and 525's. For live playing they are ALL hard to beat. Much of this is personal choice. It may be because I spec'd out my 525 Custom to my taste, but it is my all time favorite Heritage for playing jazzier material in a band situation. (As a player I am nowhere near Ingeneri's league either!) All that being said, I really hope that the seller of that gorgeous Benedetto in the For Sale section is able to find a good home for it. That baby deserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 All I've seen is the guitars are going for really high prices on Elderly's used gear site. Ed Roman has mentioned how great they are, but that's all I've read. And we all know what kind of opinion Ed carries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeittgeist Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 ...As is my two Heritage built D'Angelicos... Whoa, Heritage makes, or made, D'Angelicos??? Are they still being produced in Kalamazoo? How would one recognize an Heritage built D'A? How do they differ from a Golden Eagle? Man, this is fascinating stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I believe D'Angelico's are not, but they've done some custom work for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Whoa, Heritage makes, or made, D'Angelicos??? Are they still being produced in Kalamazoo? How would one recognize an Heritage built D'A? How do they differ from a Golden Eagle? Man, this is fascinating stuff! For a short time, in the early 1990s, the good folks at 225 Parsons Street were making D'Angelico replicas, as a ghost builder, for the owners of the D'Angelico brand name. GHS Strings bought the name from the D'Angelico family and tried a few different builders for the replicas before they settled on Heritage. They differ in aesthetics and size from the Golden Eagles and Super Eagles. I may get myself in a bit of trouble for saying this (yeah . . like that's ever stopped me) but, it's apparent that there was a bit more attention paid to fit and finish, detail and dare I say . . . . perfection, to my 2 Heritage Build D'Angelicos than to any of my other Heritage arch tops. They can be identified by the label inside the F hole. It is signed by all 4 of the owners of Heritage. They only made about 12 or so guitars. There was a list price at the time of $10,000. The guitars look and sound like they were made by God!! But, even if they were, Marv still rolled the necks!!! He'd have it no other way . . . I'm sure of it. There's a wonderful book . . "D'Angelico, Master Guitar Builder . . What's In A Name?" by Peter W/M Green. It features the complete history with many great photos of original and reproduced D'Angelicos. My New Yorker, number 1027 is featured on page 86. Unfortunately, my Excel didn't make the photo shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I believe D'Angelico's are not, but they've done some custom work for them... Heritage did build D'Angelico guitars. See my post above in response to zeittgeist . . . photos included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 For a short time, in the early 1990s, the good folks at 225 Parsons Street were making D'Angelico replicas, as a ghost builder, for the owners of the D'Angelico brand name. GHS Strings bought the name from the D'Angelico family and tried a few different builders for the replicas before they settled on Heritage. They differ in aesthetics and size from the Golden Eagles and Super Eagles. I may get myself in a bit of trouble for saying this (yeah . . like that's ever stopped me) but, it's apparent that there was a bit more attention paid to fit and finish, detail and dare I say . . . . perfection, to my 2 Heritage Build D'Angelicos than to any of my other Heritage arch tops. They can be identified by the label inside the F hole. It is signed by all 4 of the owners of Heritage. They only made about 12 or so guitars. There was a list price at the time of $10,000. The guitars look and sound like they were made by God!! But, even if they were, Marv still rolled the necks!!! He'd have it no other way . . . I'm sure of it. There's a wonderful book . . "D'Angelico, Master Guitar Builder . . What's In A Name?" by Peter W/M Green. It features the complete history with many great photos of original and reproduced D'Angelicos. My New Yorker, number 1027 is featured on page 86. Unfortunately, my Excel didn't make the photo shoot. The three guitars you posted are ALL beautiful, Patrick, as are your Heritage archtops. To own 2 of the 12 or so D'Angelico's ever made at Parsons Street is amazing, indeed! Thanks for showing those. God help me (and my wallet) if I ever get the "I MUST have a Heritage Archtop" bug. My Ibanez Artcore AF-105 has scratched my jazz box itch just fine...Then YOU come along and show what a REAL work of art they can be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeittgeist Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 My New Yorker, number 1027 is featured on page 86. Unfortunately, my Excel didn't make the photo shoot. With that stable of incredible guitars, how do you decide which one to play at any given time? Do you have a system, like the rotation that watch and pen collectors use? Or is it based on function? Or does a particular guitar call to you on it's own? I have wrestled with this in other areas in which I had built collections, and am always fascinated how others approach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 With that stable of incredible guitars, how do you decide which one to play at any given time? Do you have a system, like the rotation that watch and pen collectors use? Or is it based on function? Or does a particular guitar call to you on it's own? I have wrestled with this in other areas in which I had built collections, and am always fascinated how others approach it. I think it's pretty much which one is calling out to me.. Unfortunately, I'm not capable of adhering to a regimentation of consistent playing or studying/practicing. It's a pretty infrequent event for me . . and when I do get to pick up a guitar, it's usually for such a short period of time, that I don't even bother to plug in. So, as you say, when I look at my "stable" . . one of them usually just lifts its head and says . .. "hey, it's been a while for me . . and I'm still here for you." That's the one I will usually pick up . . put between my legs (I usually play sitting down with the guitar held like a classical guitar) and play for about 15 or 20 minutes. There are times that I will play 4 or 5 different guitars, each for about 5 or 6 minutes, just to experience each individual personality over again. If I were fortunate enough to be able to really wood shed for an hour and a half a day . . . I would need to pick just one or two and put the rest away in their cases. I would need to have a real tightly bonded relationship with just one or two guitars. Somehow, I think that my one main guitar, would be the very first Heritage I owned . . . a 1994 Heritage Golden Eagle made for me to my specs. It just feels so right in my hands. The second would be my antique natural H535. I've got to get better about designating more playing time. Only, I just don't know where to take it from. Oh well . . . I guess priorities need to be in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think it's pretty much which one is calling out to me.. Unfortunately, I'm not capable of adhering to a regimentation of consistent playing or studying/practicing. It's a pretty infrequent event for me . . and when I do get to pick up a guitar, it's usually for such a short period of time, that I don't even bother to plug in. So, as you say, when I look at my "stable" . . one of them usually just lifts its head and says . .. "hey, it's been a while for me . . and I'm still here for you." That's the one I will usually pick up . . put between my legs (I usually play sitting down with the guitar held like a classical guitar) and play for about 15 or 20 minutes. There are times that I will play 4 or 5 different guitars, each for about 5 or 6 minutes, just to experience each individual personality over again. If I were fortunate enough to be able to really wood shed for an hour and a half a day . . . I would need to pick just one or two and put the rest away in their cases. I would need to have a real tightly bonded relationship with just one or two guitars. Somehow, I think that my one main guitar, would be the very first Heritage I owned . . . a 1994 Heritage Golden Eagle made for me to my specs. It just feels so right in my hands. The second would be my antique natural H535. I've got to get better about designating more playing time. Only, I just don't know where to take it from. Oh well . . . I guess priorities need to be in order. Patrick, did you ever get your hand problem taken care of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Patrick, did you ever get your hand problem taken care of? No I didn't. I took my wife's advice and went for a second opinion. The second hand specialist said that if it hasn't gotten worse over the past two years and if it isn't too restrictive to my hand and finger mobility, that I should just leave it alone . . for now. So, now I've got two highly respected surgeons giving me conflicting advice. That means I need a third opinion. The third hand specialist concurred with the second. So, I'll leave it alone . . .for now. We'll see what happens down the road. Thanks for your concern schundog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I'm glad to hear that, Patrick. Here's to hoping it doesn't get any worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 No I didn't. I took my wife's advice and went for a second opinion. The second hand specialist said that if it hasn't gotten worse over the past two years and if it isn't too restrictive to my hand and finger mobility, that I should just leave it alone . . for now. So, now I've got two highly respected surgeons giving me conflicting advice. That means I need a third opinion. The third hand specialist concurred with the second. So, I'll leave it alone . . .for now. We'll see what happens down the road. Thanks for your concern schundog. Geez Patrick. I guess I missed this. Sorry hear about it. Hopefully the third opinion will give you some idea what you want/need to do. I am assuming they know what the problem is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Geez Patrick. I guess I missed this. Sorry hear about it. Hopefully the third opinion will give you some idea what you want/need to do. I am assuming they know what the problem is? The problem is Dupuytren Contracture. I'm going to post a link up to further info on it. It's something that is pretty rare, but in that we're all guitarists, you all (y'all) should definitely be aware and on the look out for it. http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The problem is Dupuytren Contracture. I'm going to post a link up to further info on it. It's something that is pretty rare, but in that we're all guitarists, you all (y'all) should definitely be aware and on the look out for it. http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00008 Wow, man. Well, best wishes to you on this. Keep us informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheetsofsound Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 The benedetto guitars are great but I recently bought an eastman El Rey and think it compares very favorably with the bambino. I wish Heritage made something like the el rey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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