jazz tube amp help

[jrfreed]

I poked around and the conversations always revolve around solid states for jazz (poly's, evans, henrickson, etc) but want tubes...

 

I have purchased a few niiiice guitars the last few years but completely neglected my amps. Its crazy to me that I'm playing guitars worth thousands of dollars and think nothing of plugging into a very inexpensive amplifier.

 

Dont get me wrong...if it sounds good then get after it!! And by no means am I a gear snob (absolutely love my squire classic vibe tele and p-bass and have no trouble taking them to gigs)...But I keep chasing "the sound" and always attribute that to the guitar. Hollow, semi-hollow, HB, p-90's, lollars single coils, heavier strings etc etc etc....but never turned around and thought, "ya know this amp might not be right for what I'm trying to do."

 

You'll never pry my classic 30 out of my hands if I'm playing blues/R&B, but I'm playing 90% jazz right now and its just not a jazz amp. I have a couple of others that I can use (fender accoutisonic, line 6, bugera v5 for practice) and they are ALL passable, but lacking.

 

I'm leaning towards the Swart AST pro (20 watts , class A, HUGE tone, small and easy to transport)

 

Here's the question I offer the HOC. If I want a TUBE amp for 100% jazz, what would you suggest? Riviera? Matchless? Fender? Swart? Bad Cat?

[TheRecordFable]

DR.Z

[Spectrum13]

JR...

 

For tube jazz amps... I would recommend the Swarts... it would depend on how much head room you need. Not much from the 5 watts but portable @ great for home use. Thick old time tweed tone.

 

Another affordable option would be an old Ampeg with 7591s. They are heavy a bargin and built for the professional jazz player of the 1950s and 60s. The real deal.

[slider313]

A Carr Rambler 1x12 or VVT Lindy Fralin 1x15 amp would work quite well. Both have a full, warm tone, are cathode bias and have on board reverb.

In the vintage dept,; a non reverb blackface Fender Deluxe, Princeton, Tremolux or an Ampeg Reverberocket all sound full and warm. With the vintage stuff; they may need servicing and a better speaker(s).

[tbonesullivan]

for jazz you are probably gonna want a lot of clean headroom with a nice bell-like sound, so I'd go for something with 6L6GC tubes. How large of a venue are you playing? also, you may want to look into a 15 inch speaker, as you can get some really nice bass response from that.

 

I don't play jazz though, so I'm pretty much out of my element.

[Ray]

I have also been looking into good, clean Jazz amps - I narrowed down my search to Jazzkat, Acoustic Image - Claris SLR and Fender Vintage Reissue '65 Twin Reverb. Twin Reverb is very heavy at around 64Ibs. The weigt of Jazzkat is between 20Ibs and 28Ibs.

[t0aj15]

I use this one,

 

 

This amp has great clean & crunch tones and is switchable between 25, 50, & 100 watts. Very under-rated IMO. I also use the same amp with the 2-12" cab sitting behind it.

[tbonesullivan]

This amp has great clean & crunch tones and is switchable between 25, 50, & 100 watts. Very under-rated IMO. I also use the same amp with the 2-12" cab sitting behind it.

are you running EL34's or 6L6 tubes in that? also what kind of speaker is that? A 15"?

[Kuz]

For Jazzy tones and tube amps, I would find it hard to beat either my Carr Rambler 1x12 (2 x 6L6s) or my Vibrolux Reverb 2x10s (2 x 6L6s)!!!!

[Tim]

I poked around and the conversations always revolve around solid states for jazz (poly's, evans, henrickson, etc) but want tubes...

 

I have purchased a few niiiice guitars the last few years but completely neglected my amps. Its crazy to me that I'm playing guitars worth thousands of dollars and think nothing of plugging into a very inexpensive amplifier.

 

Dont get me wrong...if it sounds good then get after it!! And by no means am I a gear snob (absolutely love my squire classic vibe tele and p-bass and have no trouble taking them to gigs)...But I keep chasing "the sound" and always attribute that to the guitar. Hollow, semi-hollow, HB, p-90's, lollars single coils, heavier strings etc etc etc....but never turned around and thought, "ya know this amp might not be right for what I'm trying to do."

 

You'll never pry my classic 30 out of my hands if I'm playing blues/R&B, but I'm playing 90% jazz right now and its just not a jazz amp. I have a couple of others that I can use (fender accoutisonic, line 6, bugera v5 for practice) and they are ALL passable, but lacking.

 

I'm leaning towards the Swart AST pro (20 watts , class A, HUGE tone, small and easy to transport)

 

Here's the question I offer the HOC. If I want a TUBE amp for 100% jazz, what would you suggest? Riviera? Matchless? Fender? Swart? Bad Cat?

I actually have both. I play my jazz stuff through a JC 77 and LOVE that clean channel (with a touch of chorus added), but I also love my little 15 watt Blues Junior too (mainly for blues, and crazy rock stuff)...neither has an effects loop though, which I miss, but, what the hell, I'm just playing in my basement anyway...

[Gitfiddler]

Just about any quality tube amp with adequate head-room should be fine. The problem is matching the amp's headroom with the room you are playing in. Since the original post was about playing 100% jazz, then go with the most power, largest speaker (12" - 15") and the lightest weight that your back can handle.

 

These makers all have dedicated jazz tube amps that are great sounding:

 

Rivera

Top Hat

Fender

Heritage

 

I'd like to try the Swart and Bad Cat amps. They have great reviews in the trades.

[jrfreed]

For Jazzy tones and tube amps, I would find it hard to beat either my Carr Rambler 1x12 (2 x 6L6s) or my Vibrolux Reverb 2x10s (2 x 6L6s)!!!!

 

I was wondering if anyone would suggest a vibrolux!! I have been leaning more towards the boutique route, but Fender amps are tough to beat. Can I ask how you feel the the percieved headroom is? Does it even compare to the Carr? Is the additional $1500 for the Carr that noticable?

[slider313]

The newer Fender "Custom Vibrolux Reverb" sounds nothing like the blackface '64-'67 version.

The new one lacks clean headroom.

[iim7v7im7]

If you have your sites set on a tube amp voiced to play jazz you can check out this amp:

 

Commins/Alessandro Amp

 

It's a 60w, 6550 based combo amp, 1x12, 42 lb. and goes for $1600.

 

Personally, I find most tube amps that I enjoy are not as good for jazz than the fine solid state products available today. I know this is anathema to tube amp devotees (I am one), but it is my experience. My BF and Tweed amps while fabulous for blues and rock have less headroom, poorer EQ control and bass response than my solid state amp. They also have a fslower response to pick attack, which I do not enjoy when playing jazz. While the SS amps do not have all of the euphonic warmth and feel that tube amps provide, they sound good an dare far more musical than plugging into a PA system. I know that there is no "mojo" to them, but there are much more good options than ever today.

 

All of these companies make excellent sounding solid state jazz amps.

 

Acoustic Image

AER

Evans

Fender

Henriksen

Jazzkat

Polytone

 

I think one thing to consider is what do the better pros today choose to play?

 

Howard Alden

Jimmy Bruno

Larry Coryell

Joe Diorio

Ron Eschete

Mimi Fox

Henry Johnson

Vince Lewis

Pat Martino

Andreas Oberg

John & Bucky Pizzareli

Martin Taylor

Frank Vignola

Ulf Wakenius

Jack Wilkins

 

ALL play solid state amps. There s a reason for this. Yes they're light and small, yes they're reliable , they have tremendous headroom, but most importantly, they are musical and SOUND GOOD.

 

Food for Thought.

 

Good Luck,

 

Bob

[Jazzpunk]

I've got a '73 Super Reverb (had it put into a head cab) and a couple of Headstrong amps. Fender or Fender style tube amps are it for me when it comes to the type of electrified jazz sound I like.

 

I've tried to get into the popular solid state jazz amps used by those listed above but honestly it's just not my thing. If I was going for a more 'acoustic' sound I'd consider one but for the classic electrified jazz tones that I know and love, these amps do not deliver. As always YMMV.

 

I saw Kenny Burrell recently and he was playing his Gibson hollow body through a Fender Twin. His tone that night was 'game over' as far as I'm concerned!

[Kuz]

The newer Fender "Custom Vibrolux Reverb" sounds nothing like the blackface '64-'67 version.

The new one lacks clean headroom.

 

My Vibrolux Reverb is an original 1967, I should have stated that. Personally, I don't think the newer Fender Reissues are close to the vintage Fenders. I am not a "vintage snob" but I just like the vintage Fenders or Headstrong or Carr amps over the Fender RI stuff. The '67 Vibrolux Reverb has the same or more headroom as my Carr Rambler.

 

I LOVE both of these amps, but there is something about the vintage Vibrolux.......

 

If I ever take the jazz studies seriously, I would like to check out a solid state Polytone though. I personally have never did a lot with SS amps, it's always been tubes for me.

[DC Ron]

Have been on this journey as well. If you HAVE to have tube (and who doesn't?) then +1 to an Ampeg Reverberocket II. 7591's, 12" speaker and the lushest reverb on this planet. I'm also pleased with how my vintage 1965 princeton reverb turned out with a 12" baffle and Weber Classic AlNiCo (all direct replacements and 100% reversible). But neither compares to the two Polytones I've recently found. The 1981 Mini Brute IV has a 15" Eminence, a nifty Accutronics reverb and plenty of pure, clean solid state power. The 1984 Mini S12L has a 12" Eminence, the same reverb, but has a tighter, more focused sound. I keep swapping between the two of them and just can't settle. BTW, the S12L included the original owners manual with the following partial list of players: George Benson, Kenny Burrell, Charlie Byrd, Ron Eschete, Herb Ellis, Mundell Lowe, Joe Pass and Tommy Tedesco. What's wrong with that?! Good luck!

[Jazzpunk]

Hmmm, lots of names being thrown out here as to guys that play solid state amps. Maybe it would be better to list recordings done with solid state amps and those done with tube amps. That way our ears can be our guide.

 

Lots of guys endorse products that don't end up on their albums!

[Jazzpunk]

Oh and before I get flamed for my opinion, I've heard some really nice performances with solid state amps and will most likely purchase one when I am too old to lug a tube amp around!

[BMG]

Don't want to hammer that opnion, I too have a small collection of amps. Fender Blues DeVille 4x10 - Old Gibson Amp form the 50's - Fuchs Black Jack 21 and Acoustic Image with Raezer's Edge cabinet. Of all the amps I've done the jazz thing through, the AI and RE combo is amazingly good. It really sounds like my guitar just louder. I have a Heritage Johnny Smith and a Benedetto Bamino Dlx they both sound great on their own. And through that amp they sound even better. So I think if you are starting with a nice instrument un-amplified you will have great success with the solid state option. Amazingly the Fuch's is a great clean amp. All tube and built for the rock thing but I love the clean on that as well.

 

I belong to Jimmy Bruno's teaching site (highly recomended) and I saw him last year. He too uses the Acoustic Image and Raezer's edge. No endorsement for him but I asked about the recording side and he uses that setup in his home studio as well. He was very close with Rich Raezer before he passed and recorded a tune on one of his albums called Raezer's Edge. Great tune and album.

 

Good luck and let us know which amp you choose.

[Ray]

All of these companies make excellent sounding solid state jazz amps.

 

Acoustic Image

AER

Evans

Fender

Henriksen

Jazzkat

Polytone

 

I think one thing to consider is what do the better pros today choose to play?

 

Howard Alden

Jimmy Bruno

Larry Coryell

Joe Diorio

Ron Eschete

Mimi Fox

Henry Johnson

Vince Lewis

Pat Martino

Andreas Oberg

John & Bucky Pizzareli

Martin Taylor

Frank Vignola

Ulf Wakenius

Jack Wilkins

 

ALL play solid state amps. There s a reason for this. Yes they're light and small, yes they're reliable , they have tremendous headroom, but most importantly, they are musical and SOUND GOOD.

 

Food for Thought.

 

Good Luck,

 

Bob

 

 

Very helpful information iim7v7im7, thank you. I wanted to add that Henry Johnson also uses Fender Vintage Reissue '65 Twin Reverb in addition to Claris SLR and Jazzkat. Pat Martino uses Acoustic Image - Claris SLR.

[TalismanRich]

I saw Frank Vignola 2 weeks ago with Tommy Emmanuel but I couldn't tell what type of amp he was using. It seemed like a little bitty thing, a 1 x 12 at most. Most of it was coming through the PA system.

 

BTW, there's a video on CertifiedGuitarPlayer.com of Tommy and Frank playing. Tommy is playing his old Kalamazoo acoustic (I think it was a 1937 model).

 

http://www.certifiedguitarplayer.com/justbetweenfrets.aspx

[t0aj15]

are you running EL34's or 6L6 tubes in that? also what kind of speaker is that? A 15"?

Mine still has the original tubes it came with Groove Tube 6L6B's, the speaker is a 15" Eminence Commonwealth which is a JBL-D130F clone that Fender is using in their Twin Custom 15 amp. On their website Fender claims they worked with Eminence to recreate the sound of the old JBL's that Fender used to use in their amps back in the 60's & 70's.

 

Here's a link to the Fender:

Fender 65 Twin Custom 15.

 

Here's a link to the Eminence.

Eminence Commonwealth.

[jrfreed]

Don't want to hammer that opnion, I too have a small collection of amps. Fender Blues DeVille 4x10 - Old Gibson Amp form the 50's - Fuchs Black Jack 21 and Acoustic Image with Raezer's Edge cabinet. Of all the amps I've done the jazz thing through, the AI and RE combo is amazingly good. It really sounds like my guitar just louder. I have a Heritage Johnny Smith and a Benedetto Bamino Dlx they both sound great on their own. And through that amp they sound even better. So I think if you are starting with a nice instrument un-amplified you will have great success with the solid state option. Amazingly the Fuch's is a great clean amp. All tube and built for the rock thing but I love the clean on that as well.

 

I belong to Jimmy Bruno's teaching site (highly recomended) and I saw him last year. He too uses the Acoustic Image and Raezer's edge. No endorsement for him but I asked about the recording side and he uses that setup in his home studio as well. He was very close with Rich Raezer before he passed and recorded a tune on one of his albums called Raezer's Edge. Great tune and album.

 

Good luck and let us know which amp you choose.

 

HAHAHA!! I'm a JBGI student as well! Same ID as this site

 

I have a solid state amplifier that I really enjoy (fender accoustisonic) which is is voiced for a flat-top accoutstic. As mentioned earlier, it allows the natural sound of the guitar to come thru and I am in the process of working up solo gigs and the independant channels are perfect for channel #1 guitar channel #2 laptop for backing tracks etc.

 

I want to thank everyone for their input! As always, everyone have brought some excellent ideas and brands I had orignially overlooked (Ampeg, carr, fuchs, top hat) I think I'm going to start trolling for an Ampeg on the 'bay and local shops to see what I can find.

 

But since we have a great conversation going lemme jusmp into the tube/ss conversation

 

As good as the AER, Evans, Poly's etc sound...they arent organic. My jazz amp now is a ss, but it sounds a bit sterile to me and lacking depth...HOWEVER I leave ya'll with this. Perception is everything. If you placed two or three amplifiers behind a curtin and a/b'd them I challenge most of us couldnt tell the difference. I think tubes sound warmer and more organic b/c thats what I'm expecting to hear...ya dig?

[Gitfiddler]

Mine still has the original tubes it came with Groove Tube 6L6B's, the speaker is a 15" Eminence Commonwealth which is a JBL-D130F clone that Fender is using in their Twin Custom 15 amp. On their website Fender claims they worked with Eminence to recreate the sound of the old JBL's that Fender used to use in their amps back in the 60's & 70's.

 

Here's a link to the Fender:

Fender 65 Twin Custom 15.

 

Here's a link to the Eminence.

Eminence Commonwealth.

 

 

A first rate jazzer buddy of mine owns one of those 15" loaded Twins. All I can say is WOW, what a great, fat jazz tone he gets from it. The only downside is the amp's weight. Just too darned heavy to drag to/from gigs.