KSquared Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I'm in the process of acquainting myself with my new (to me) 535. The 535 through my Dr Z. Maz 18 is amazing -- that will be the subject of another (long) post sometime. When I need less volume, my "little" amp is a Swart Space Tone Atom (now rebranded Space Tone Atomic Jr) -- 5W, 8" Weber speaker, 6v6 circuit based on the Fender 5F2, with reverb. You'll find nothing but gushing reviews on this amp. That said, after playing with it for the last hour or so, it seems that it just does not get along with my 535. It's muddy, and excessively dark to my ears, even with the tone controls dimed on guitar and amp. I tried low volume on amp, then the amp cranked with guitar volume down low, and things in between. It's not really meant to be a clean amp, but I can't get a good clean-ish sound at all, even at low volume. It breaks up early and muddy. About the only good tone I could get is a high gain, screaming lead tone. So next I plugged in my Strat and played around, just to be sure the amp was okay and my ears were not playing tricks on me. With the Strat I can get an excellent "clean-with-a-little-hair" sound, and the breakup stays tighter. I get a nice variety of tones, and good note definition even with gain. The amp is as awesome with the Strat as it is bad with the 535. Is it normal for this type of amp to hate humbuckers (or at least the humbucker/semi configuration) and love single coils? Anyone have any ideas to help these two nice pieces of gear get along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum13 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 KL7, I have the bigger brother STR and it loves humbuckers so it might be the 8" speaker. Have you tried patchin into a 12" greenback. Amps are particular about what they like to have plugged in and what speakers they are connected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundersteel Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 My STR sounds awesome through my 555. I've never tried the Atom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 5 ptp watts + Humbuckers + 8" speaker = mudd. Hook that baby up to an extension cabinet loaded w/ 1 or 2 12's and your 535 should sound huge and clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSquared Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Good thoughts, thanks. I don't have a cab, but the Dr Z is a 1x12 combo with a g30. I think I can run the swart into that speaker for a test, at least. If it sounds good I'll be looking for a new extension cab . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSquared Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 5 ptp watts + Humbuckers + 8" speaker = mudd. Hook that baby up to an extension cabinet loaded w/ 1 or 2 12's and your 535 should sound huge and clean. Bingo! I just ran the following experiment -- unplugged the Swart from the 8" speaker and ran it into the speaker in the Dr Z combo (a Celestion g12H). The mud disappeared. Clear as a bell. Still pretty early breakup, but it a pleasing way. Oh my god is this loud for 5 watts! The other interesting thing is that the feedback seems to come quicker with the 12" speaker, in a controllable sort of way. I think the Swart is 4ohm, the speaker is 8 ohm. Is this okay? I've always understood that the amp impedance could be less than the speaker impedance, but not vice versa. Does it have to match? The interweb experts are all over the place on this question . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conorb Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I've got a Swart STR and I find the opposite. Doesn't really like my single coil guitars, but loves my humbucker guitars. It just sounds too bright (to me anyway) with singlecoils. I'm thinking about swapping out the rectifier tube and the power tube to see what that might do. Of course, the next problem is figuring out what tubes and where to get them from. conorb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbp810 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I've got a Swart STR and I find the opposite. Doesn't really like my single coil guitars, but loves my humbucker guitars. It just sounds too bright (to me anyway) with singlecoils. I'm thinking about swapping out the rectifier tube and the power tube to see what that might do. Of course, the next problem is figuring out what tubes and where to get them from. conorb I would start with preamp and power tubes if you are going to experiement with tube swapping - the rectifier wouldn't really make a difference on the tone unless you plan on trying to step up or down the B+ voltage with a different tube type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbp810 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Bingo! I just ran the following experiment -- unplugged the Swart from the 8" speaker and ran it into the speaker in the Dr Z combo (a Celestion g12H). The mud disappeared. Clear as a bell. Still pretty early breakup, but it a pleasing way. Oh my god is this loud for 5 watts! The other interesting thing is that the feedback seems to come quicker with the 12" speaker, in a controllable sort of way. I think the Swart is 4ohm, the speaker is 8 ohm. Is this okay? I've always understood that the amp impedance could be less than the speaker impedance, but not vice versa. Does it have to match? The interweb experts are all over the place on this question . . . Usually 4ohm to 8ohm is going to be safe, especially considering that speaker ratings vary significantly... as in the speaker might actually read closer to 5ohm, and still get labled as an 8. Worst case, you might just be running the power tubes a little cold, which could be accounting for the early breakup you are getting; but if it sounds good to your ears, I think you are good to go! ...and 5 watts of tweed power into a 12" speaker (or multiple 12" speakers ) is a wonderful thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conorb Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I would start with preamp and power tubes if you are going to experiement with tube swapping - the rectifier wouldn't really make a difference on the tone unless you plan on trying to step up or down the B+ voltage with a different tube type. Thanks for the tip. I'm still pretty new at this tube swapping thing. conorb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koula901 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 5 ptp watts + Humbuckers + 8" speaker = mudd. Hook that baby up to an extension cabinet loaded w/ 1 or 2 12's and your 535 should sound huge and clean. that's exactly what I was going to say. Your humbuckers are probably higher output than your single coils. Using your humbucker 535 with an 8" speaker, I'm not surprised to hear you have mudd.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguitar71 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 go here: http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12984-rebirth-of-a-champ/page__p__158505__fromsearch__1&do=findComment&comment=158505 I changed to 2x10's with my champ and it sounds great with any guitar going into it. The humbuckers were too much for it before. It has lots-o-bottom end and is very percussive. Wednesday I hope to make a recording with it, if that happens I will post it so you can hear it. I will use my p-90 150 and my humbucker es347 so you can hear it both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSquared Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 go here: http://www.heritageownersclub.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12984-rebirth-of-a-champ/page__p__158505__fromsearch__1&do=findComment&comment=158505 I changed to 2x10's with my champ and it sounds great with any guitar going into it. The humbuckers were too much for it before. It has lots-o-bottom end and is very percussive. Wednesday I hope to make a recording with it, if that happens I will post it so you can hear it. I will use my p-90 150 and my humbucker es347 so you can hear it both. Just checked out the link to your other thread on rebuilding a Champ. Very cool. You've made me dream about doing the same to my Swart, now that I've discovered how much the 8" speaker holds back the amp. BTW, this is not a criticism of the Space Tone. It's meant to be "small" in size for home use and grab and go applications. It weighs only 14 lbs! Can't say that about 1x12 or 2x10 combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSquared Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 I've got a Swart STR and I find the opposite. Doesn't really like my single coil guitars, but loves my humbucker guitars. It just sounds too bright (to me anyway) with singlecoils. I'm thinking about swapping out the rectifier tube and the power tube to see what that might do. Of course, the next problem is figuring out what tubes and where to get them from. conorb Conorb, I'm wondering how loud/clean you have the amp. I'm thinking that as you turn that beast a little louder it would tame the brightness. Might need an attenuator to keep the volume where you like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 KL7, I have the bigger brother STR and it loves humbuckers so it might be the 8" speaker. Have you tried patchin into a 12" greenback. Amps are particular about what they like to have plugged in and what speakers they are connected to. I Tend to agree, if your 535 has Seth Lovers on it, they are fairly gutsy as far as output goes, and an 8" speaker just can't move enough air to make em sound right.. A 10 inch or a 12 inch would probably do you justice.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I'm in the process of acquainting myself with my new (to me) 535. The 535 through my Dr Z. Maz 18 is amazing -- that will be the subject of another (long) post sometime. When I need less volume, my "little" amp is a Swart Space Tone Atom (now rebranded Space Tone Atomic Jr) -- 5W, 8" Weber speaker, 6v6 circuit based on the Fender 5F2, with reverb. You'll find nothing but gushing reviews on this amp. That said, after playing with it for the last hour or so, it seems that it just does not get along with my 535. It's muddy, and excessively dark to my ears, even with the tone controls dimed on guitar and amp. I tried low volume on amp, then the amp cranked with guitar volume down low, and things in between. It's not really meant to be a clean amp, but I can't get a good clean-ish sound at all, even at low volume. It breaks up early and muddy. About the only good tone I could get is a high gain, screaming lead tone. So next I plugged in my Strat and played around, just to be sure the amp was okay and my ears were not playing tricks on me. With the Strat I can get an excellent "clean-with-a-little-hair" sound, and the breakup stays tighter. I get a nice variety of tones, and good note definition even with gain. The amp is as awesome with the Strat as it is bad with the 535. Is it normal for this type of amp to hate humbuckers (or at least the humbucker/semi configuration) and love single coils? Anyone have any ideas to help these two nice pieces of gear get along? Try a larger speaker in another cabinet. I had a Fender Champ 600 that sounded aweful with my Les Paul. It only had a small speaker in it and I suspect it was the speaker not able to handle the low end of a humbucker that caused it to sound so bad. I tried a strat with a floor model years later and it rocked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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