MartyGrass Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 My SE needs some tweaking. The first issue is that the bridge P90 is undershimmed (not sure that's a word). I tried to get the two pups to be close in volume by backing out the bridge screw. There just was too much distance to compensate for. The photo below gives some indication of how low the bridge pup is. I sent some photos to Lollar and talked to one of his staff this morning. It will take an extra shim to get the height I need for my goal of similar volume outputs between the pups. That's an $8 shim pack, and it's on the way. Raising the screws does increase volume output, but it is not as effective as raising the pickup. The magnetic field of the screw head is rather small. The next problem to address is that the master volume does not have an even influence on volume. There is only treble roll off when going from 10 to 6. Below that the volume drops out. I couldn't fully appreciate those findings until I spent some time amplified last night. The other pots are okay but also not quite linear. After a discussion with Billy at RS Guitarworks, we agreed on a custom harness that should resolve the master volume situation. I figure that if I'm going through this effort I might as well get all the pots and caps plus the switch replaced. He's building the harness today. The last thing is that the pups are slightly canted. You can see this on this pic. While it is no big thing at all, I'll get them straightened when the harness and the P90 shim get installed. I would not bother with any of these changes if this wasn't truly an exceptional guitar in its playability, comfort, appearance and tone. It's definitely worth the tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Some instruments deserve the attention to details that comes with owning the finest..... that is certainly in that catagory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameBand Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 My SE needs some tweaking. The first issue is that the bridge P90 is undershimmed (not sure that's a word). I tried to get the two pups to be close in volume by backing out the bridge screw. There just was too much distance to compensate for. The photo below gives some indication of how low the bridge pup is. I sent some photos to Lollar and talked to one of his staff this morning. It will take an extra shim to get the height I need for my goal of similar volume outputs between the pups. That's an $8 shim pack, and it's on the way. Raising the screws does increase volume output, but it is not as effective as raising the pickup. The magnetic field of the screw head is rather small. The next problem to address is that the master volume does not have an even influence on volume. There is only treble roll off when going from 10 to 6. Below that the volume drops out. I couldn't fully appreciate those findings until I spent some time amplified last night. The other pots are okay but also not quite linear. After a discussion with Billy at RS Guitarworks, we agreed on a custom harness that should resolve the master volume situation. I figure that if I'm going through this effort I might as well get all the pots and caps plus the switch replaced. He's building the harness today. The last thing is that the pups are slightly canted. You can see this on this pic. While it is no big thing at all, I'll get them straightened when the harness and the P90 shim get installed. I would not bother with any of these changes if this wasn't truly an exceptional guitar in its playability, comfort, appearance and tone. It's definitely worth the tweaking. MG, I had the same problem with the Master Volume on my old '52 Vega archtop w/P-90s. Billy at RS Guitarworks disconnected the master and replaced the whole harness including the pots and caps. It's perfect now. Sounds like you are on the right track. You should be happy with the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum13 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Marty G, A shim pack from Lollar and Billy's wiring harness will solve two of the three issues. How will you decant the pups? The top was cut for P90s, that looks like a spacer not an adaptor under the covers. So are you going to drill or enlarge the screw holes and hope you don't need to take a little wood off the spuce thus leaving a gap? Then you line up the scratch guard with some... additional trimming? Zen and the art of motorcycle maintance time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Marty G, A shim pack from Lollar and Billy's wiring harness will solve two of the three issues. How will you decant the pups? The top was cut for P90s, that looks like a spacer not an adaptor under the covers. So are you going to drill or enlarge the screw holes and hope you don't need to take a little wood off the spuce thus leaving a gap? Then you line up the scratch guard with some... additional trimming? Zen and the art of motorcycle maintance time. I may not be able to decant. It would only take 2 mm shift to fix it. If it would leave a gap, I wouldn't do it. After all, it's only cosmetic, and a gap would look worse. My hope is that the lip on the pup cover would cover any gap. We'll see. This is uncharted territory to me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I would suggest having a professional rewire that guitar. Hollowbodies have no access to the electronics except for the bound F-Holes. Hate to see you mar the top or the binding of that guitar trying to pull pots in and out of the guitar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 I would suggest having a professional rewire that guitar. Hollowbodies have no access to the electronics except for the bound F-Holes. Hate to see you mar the top or the binding of that guitar trying to pull pots in and out of the guitar.... I have such a professional in mind. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameBand Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I have such a professional in mind. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Ah screw it, how hard can it be? All you need are a pair of channel locks, pliers, a ball peen hammer and a fish tape. I could do it blind folded. I got your Professional right here. I'll straighten out those pups while I'm at too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ah screw it, how hard can it be? All you need are a pair of channel locks, pliers, a ball peen hammer and a fish tape. I could do it blind folded. I got your Professional right here. I'll straighten out those pups while I'm at too. Do you need to borrow my plumber's wrench again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ah screw it, how hard can it be? All you need are a pair of channel locks, pliers, a ball peen hammer and a fish tape. I could do it blind folded. I got your Professional right here. I'll straighten out those pups while I'm at too. I certainly admire that work ethic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhoadsScholar Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I had a similar issue with the alignment of a P90 pickup in a gibson es 125. I was able to remedy the problem by trying some different tension springs I had aquired over the years in my guitar tool box. A couple of stiffer springs actually aligned the pickups properly as it provided just a little bit more tension which straightened it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhoadsScholar Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 BTW Marty, that is a beautiful Super Eagle. I bet those P-90's sound great in that large Jazz Box... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 I had a similar issue with the alignment of a P90 pickup in a gibson es 125. I was able to remedy the problem by trying some different tension springs I had aquired over the years in my guitar tool box. A couple of stiffer springs actually aligned the pickups properly as it provided just a little bit more tension which straightened it out. It's got to be something simple like that to straighten these pups out. I can't imagine the top was cut with a cant. However, Gibson had a metal template that they put over the bodies to guide the routing. I suppose if that were put on crookedly the holes would be parallel with each other but canted nonetheless. I'll leave this up to the masters to sort out. Thanks, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genericmusic Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I know you are a big Aaron Cowles fan (And he is very good, especially on acoustic instruments, In fact I've used him several times myself) but that is something I personally would bring to Pete Moreno. His specialty is wiring as well as painting. I do believe that his job when working for Heritage was wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 BTW Marty, that is a beautiful Super Eagle. I bet those P-90's sound great in that large Jazz Box... Very much like the early to mid 50's Super 400's. ...only better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 I know you are a big Aaron Cowles fan (And he is very good, especially on acoustic instruments, In fact I've used him several times myself) but that is something I personally would bring to Pete Moreno. His specialty is wiring as well as painting. I do believe that his job when working for Heritage was wiring. I talked with Pete about it yesterday. He's going to do it. I'm just waiting for the harness to arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Do you need to borrow my plumber's wrench again? Maybe a blowtorch, gasoline, jackhammer, case of beer, and a sandwich.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 1/8" shim added to the bridge. The heights are fine now. The neck is very slightly louder than the bridge, which is fine. The pup screws can handle any fine tuning. Here's a picture of the RS Guitarworks harness that I should receive in a couple of days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Here are the pics before and after the shim was installed. Before. Note the lack of shim at the base of the bridge pup. After. The shim looks good. Also note that the screws for the pup cover have lost their black paint. I'll bet Lollar will send me another four. This shows the pickup proximity to the strings. The screws do need to be backed down a little. The height of the pup is appropriate. Unlike a HB, the cover cannot be tilted parallel to the strings and the bobbin is only at the center of the pup. You judge the distance to the strings from the area of the pup cover near the screws, at the center of the pup cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genericmusic Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Mighty fine instrument you have there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 The story continues. I called Lollars and explained the shim works perfectly but I need some black screws. Well, Lollar doesn't have black screws and it never had them. They ship the pups to Heritage with chrome screws. Apparently Heritage paints them or uses someone else's screws. So I'll either paint the heads or forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The story continues. I called Lollars and explained the shim works perfectly but I need some black screws. Well, Lollar doesn't have black screws and it never had them. They ship the pups to Heritage with chrome screws. Apparently Heritage paints them or uses someone else's screws. So I'll either paint the heads or forget about it. A quick way to fix it is to use a sharpy, if it really matters to you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 A quick way to fix it is to use a sharpy, if it really matters to you.. Good idea! I still have to put in the new harness, so I'll wait for the cosmetic touch up. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 It's off to Pete Moreno today for the RS Modern harness install. RS is not cheap, but they treated me very well with excellent communication and great attention to technical detail. They were also very fast. I'll report on how it sounds in a week or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameBand Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Pretty slick MG. How do you like the new harness and it's effect on the Volume/Tone issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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