DavesNotHere Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Amateurs... Thatt's just wrong, even though it's a Fender, it's still wrong My '86 Stat has zero checking, my '88 162 has a fair amount of checking and my '88 Parsons Street has some checking. The Stat is a mahogany body with a maple top, the 162 and PS are both painted poplar bodies. My new (to me) 86 poplar VIP also has some checking. Does the type of wood and/or stain/paint contribute to the checking. I'm certain different woods absorb and release mositure at different rates and therefore expand and contract at differing rate. Just adding fuel to the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 why are you so hell bent on getting your guitar to get checked? What you are doing to it may possibly damage the electronics due to condensation, and I'm sure the wood doesn't appreciate it either. Anyway, As others have stated, Heritage shoots their guitars with Nitrocellulose lacquer. This can eventually check, however I have seen many nitro finished guitars that are 20+ years old without any checking. It all depends on the formulation of nitro used. Also, while the clear coat is nitro, the color coats used may not be. Colors used were almost always the same as car finishes, and even in the 50s and 60's most car finishes were acrylic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It has been my experience that Gold Top will check the easiest. My two 150 GTs already have some checking around the higher stress component areas (tone knob, pickup ring, bridge, stop tail). I have had other "metal flake" finished guitars and they checked too.... and I didn't want this to happen. I like them looking new as long as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxmax Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Right, John. Classic nitro checking. Poly does not do that.... absolutely agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewGuy Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 no pics ?Ok , that speaks volumes ... why are you so hell bent on getting your guitar to get checked? What you are doing to it may possibly damage the electronics due to condensation, and I'm sure the wood doesn't appreciate it either. Anyway, As others have stated, Heritage shoots their guitars with Nitrocellulose lacquer. This can eventually check, however I have seen many nitro finished guitars that are 20+ years old without any checking. It all depends on the formulation of nitro used. Also, while the clear coat is nitro, the color coats used may not be. Colors used were almost always the same as car finishes, and even in the 50s and 60's most car finishes were acrylic. No not hell bent . it was an experiment, & no worries about condensation here in the desert. Damage electronics? er, no. Its all about the wood &... thanks for comments, all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 With all this talk here, and elsewhere on this forum of deliberately adding mojo to a guitar, or "antiquing" the finishes and hardware, is no one concerned about the resale value of the guitar when the application of grooviness is finished? I couldn't help but notice that a healthy number of HOC members offer their guitars for sale on the For Sale page. Speaking only for myself, I like my instruments to look shiny and new for as long as possible. I also like buying instruments that look shiny and new. That being said, if I were considering the purchase of a pre-owned guitar that no longer looked new, I would be inclined to pay a proportionally lesser amount for the instrument than what I would pay for the same used instrument if it still looked shiny and new. It might mean the difference between an offer over a thousand dollars, versus an offer under a thousand dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Just to stir the pot a little more, I recently sold an ESP LTD guitar that I'm sure did not have a nitro finish. It was primarily my oldest sons guitar until he bought a guitar he liked better, after that it spent months sitting in it's case. When I got ready to sell it I took it out to take pictures of it and there was a very pronounced check coming directly from the neck pickup mounting ring screw. I'm sure that there was a problem when the hole was drilled and the screw caused un due stress on the finish, but it was indeed a check in a poly finish. When I sold it the check was over an inch long, I'm not sure if it will ever spread or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 The artificial aging or relic thing hasn't become popular with most Heritage owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Abort...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 The artificial aging or relic thing hasn't become popular with most Heritage owners. Heh: http://briansguitars.com/sold/nash-nglp-60s-les-paul ...but dumped the goofy electronics and put a Wolfetone Dr. V in the neck, and a Marshallhead in the bridge. My guitar version of a Rat Rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 To each their own and I would not tell others what to like or not to like. I have a Masterbuilt Strat that is relic'd and probably wish it was not. But I tell you it sure does make it easy to gig it or leave it out without a fear of a ding!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewGuy Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 To each their own and I would not tell others what to like or not to like. I have a Masterbuilt Strat that is relic'd and probably wish it was not. But I tell you it sure does make it easy to gig it or leave it out without a fear of a ding!!! Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 NewGuy, I hope you aren't put off by our group's reaction to the mere THOUGHT of Poly being applied to a Heritage, or your desire to relic YOUR Heritage. I for one have NEVER understood anyone's problem with what anyone wants to do to their own personal property. I certainly dig the look of the original Gibson you posted. Fender charges EXTRA to make it look old! One of the HOC memebers I respect MOST, Yoslate, has a relic-ed Strat and relic-ed Les Paul. He's a monster player, and if it's good enough for HIM, well...who am I to argue. It's not MY thing, but I get why people dig it. Rock ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum13 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 To me it's a fashon statement. Like old jeans. From natural wear to stone wash and now we have ripped chords or what ever you kids call them. If it's part of your image, I'm cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewGuy Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 schundog & spectrum ~ , back at ya, rock on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I for one have NEVER understood anyone's problem with what anyone wants to do to their own personal property. New Guy, I hope nothing I said was interpreted as a challenge to anyone's right to do whatever they want to do to their own personal property. To the contrary, I applaud anyone who has such a well defined sense of style that they could relic an instrument to accurately express that style. The only point I was trying to make is that any alterations to the guitar might affect its resale value should you ever decide to sell it one day for whatever reason. So by all means, relic away if that's what you're into. Just making conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewGuy Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 offspring do the craziest things dont they? it's all good hangar ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 This one is from 1986.... I don't know what to tell you to achieve this on yours though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewGuy Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Fred, Tom Murphy (the master painter) has taught me everything about aging, but i refuse to use a razor blade. a man has GOT to know his limitations ( in my best Dirty Harry voice) .. 32 degrees I can do, but don't put sharps object in my hands. it is what it is and I am good with that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 This one is from 1986.... I don't know what to tell you to achieve this on yours though.. That sort of cracking is starting to happen on the back of the headstock of my H157 (black). I thought it was a bad thing but I guess I'll just leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitargarage Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I know this is an older thread - but as another responder mentioned, different formulations of nitrocellulose lacquer have different characteristics in terms of checking. As far as I can tell from discussions with folks at Eastern Chem-Lac, a company that was based in Everett MA until it was bought out about 5 years ago, nitrocellulose lacquer is a blend of a whole mess of compounds and solvents - and different manufacturers use different blends. As an example - one label of lacquer I have from CAMGER systems has the following ingredient list: Isopropyly Alcohol n-Butyl Alcohol Methyl Ethyl Ketone n-Xylene 1-Methoxy 2-Propanol Acetate Toluene n-Butyl Acetate Xylenes (Dimethyl Benzenes) The one component that seems to control checking is the amount of plasticizer added (I have no idea which of the above is the plasticizer) - most modern nitro has a good amount of plasticizer added - which keeps the lacquer slightly flexible in the long run and prevents checking (which for most applications is considered a "good" thing). I did have Eastern Chem-lac mix me a batch of plasticizer-free lacquer - and it was TOO fragile - it would actually check very deeply and then even flake off over a sharp radius on a guitar body. And for some odd reason (I'm not a Chem.E guy) - that formulation also seemed to oxidize the inside of steel container over time. I ended up cutting it with their normal lacquer about 1:2 - and then just using it for the top clear coat - which resulted in very fine checking after about 6 months but seemed stable for the long run. As for temperature shocking - I thing the original poster has it backwards - its probably better to warm the finish a bit - and then chill it suddenly - computer air-in-a-can "freeze spray" works. However - I have done this with finishes that were pretty fresh ( a few weeks of curing) - and they checked beautifully - you could actually HEAR the crackling - but then 3 days later all the checking was invisible - it apparently had "reset" due to the finish still being a little soft/flexible. I have never had the patience to wait a year - and THEN freeze a finish - maybe that would work ?? I'd love advice on sources for clear lacquer that will check - I have heard that McFaddens older formulations checked well - but that changed over time (as presumably their formulation changed). Also have heard of "piano lacquer" which may or may not have fewer plasticizers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 That makes sense to me that many different formulations would exist for nitro. Till now, the only outfit I had heard of who stated using their own secret recipe for nitro was PRS guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 The reason why the lacquer was oxidizing the inside of the container is most likely because a lot of those compounds are quite reactive. Some talk about how nitro remains "fluid", which is really not the case. It dries... and continues to dry and outgas rather nasty chemicals for quite a while, and many of these can corrode the heck out metal. Cellulose Nitrate (a related compound) was used for pickguards back in the day, and when it ages it unleashes a fun bunch of chemicals. Here's a good picture: http://brawer.com/2008/03/the-noisome-exhalation-of-decay/ It is these gases that cause the reaction with items such as latex rubber. As for whether you can touch up/repair polyester finishes, of course you can. They are car finishes, and like car finishes, they can be repaired. The problem is finding someone to work with poly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 My '86 VIP I is checked all over the body. The neck isn't though, maybe the headstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I used to own this '86 Stat. Bought it from a pawn shop here in Madison before moving it along a few years back to another HOC'r (sorry, can't remember-- Randy?? in S. C. if I recall) anyway, it was a pawn shop rescue as you can see it was a rescue. some reggae player had it, ya mon. if you look by the horn in the reflection you can see where it has begun to check, quite nicely I might add. No artificial ingredients added, just old fashoned use (or abuse, depending on your p.o.v.) anyway, here it it. for sure nitro. enjoyable post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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