MartyGrass Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I posed that question regarding spruce. Here's the answer. It basically has to do with the availability of wood blanks large enough to do a one piece top. If you count the grain lines on an arch top guitar, starting from the center seam out to the edge of the widest part of the lower bout . . . each of the darker lines represents about 1 year of growth. So then, take that number of grains, and double it to account for the two sides. 250 grain lines? Approximately 250 year old tree. An 18" guitar usually requires 2 blanks of 10" . . glued together to make a 20" top . . . which will then be worked down in the shaping and carving process to the 18". A typical sitka spruce tree adequate in size for cutting billets large enough for two 10" blanks is anywhere between 200 and 400 years old. Imagine how old it would need to be to cut billets large enough for 20" blanks for a single piece top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HRB853370 Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I posed that question regarding spruce. Here's the answer. It basically has to do with the availability of wood blanks large enough to do a one piece top. If you count the grain lines on an arch top guitar, starting from the center seam out to the edge of the widest part of the lower bout . . . each of the darker lines represents about 1 year of growth. So then, take that number of grains, and double it to account for the two sides. 250 grain lines? Approximately 250 year old tree. An 18" guitar usually requires 2 blanks of 10" . . glued together to make a 20" top . . . which will then be worked down in the shaping and carving process to the 18". A typical sitka spruce tree adequate in size for cutting billets large enough for two 10" blanks is anywhere between 200 and 400 years old. Imagine how old it would need to be to cut billets large enough for 20" blanks for a single piece top? Thanks Mark. Did this come from Aaron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Thanks Mark. Did this come from Aaron? I'm sure Aaron knows just about everything about building a guitar, including this. But he didn't provide this info. He likes to tell other kinds of stories. He went to school in a tiny village in Michigan. It had a single room for the whole school. The kids were able to bring their sleds on the bus so they could slide at recess. Nowadays you don't see that, and it's a shame. That's an Aaron story. Here's the follow up, a martygrass story. In 5th grade I brought a real civil war rifle to school on the bus for show and tell. It even had a bayonet on it. The teachers and students loved it, and there were no problems. Nowadays you can't bring your weapons to school anymore. You'll get expelled and your parents will go to jail. Aaron thought that's a shame, too. Although I don't think he'd like kids bringing working firearms to school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhoadsScholar Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Wow, I didn't know that but it makes sense. Much like flame maple, I love the look of Bear Claw spruce. I have an ovation custom legend that is over the top with bear claw spruce and if I ever was able to make a custom archtop, I would try to find that. I wonder how rare Bear Claw spruce is compared to Flame Maple (I always wondered what caused the bear claw effect in spruce). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 interesting stuff!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 How the one piece appearance of the laminated maple top happens: Maple that is used for laminates isn't cut from billets. It's actually "peeled" or unrolled by slicing. That's also the process used to create the seamless 4' X 8' sheets of plywood. However, the 1 piece maple backs are not made from peeled maple . . they're made from billets taken from the largest felled trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguitar71 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Book matched tops started with violins. The wood was available for a one piece top and was/is used sometimes. The reason For the two piece is sound. Book matched pieces are exact copies of one another starting from the middle and moving to the edges when resawn and laid open. This allows the sound to move uniformly across the top. With a one piece top the grains can represent a few hundred years of growth and in that time many environmental variables can occur thus changing the sonic properties from one side of the 9" piece of wood to the other (for a one piece violin top). With a sonicly uniform top the sound can then be predictably manipulated with the sound post and for a guitar with the bracing. The bracing on a guitar is not just for strength but to transmit the vibrations to the edge, to the recurve on an arch top which acts like a hinge allowing the top to move and push the air. As instruments become larger then the need to get wood big enough make the two piece top necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 If you find a one peice top, buy it and don't let it go!... ...like I did... "Dumb@ss!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 If resawn pieces were exact copies of each other, I'd anticipate a guitar's flame pattern to precisely match; at least at the seam. Resaw any piece of wood, plane or sand a couple millimeters to smooth the face and you'll find the grain patterns are different. While the theory of predictability in wood sounds comforting, in practice it's quite the opposite. It is the dichotomy between theoretical and empirical that keeps me in the Heritage camp. I would Much rather have a skilled luthier select the pieces for a guitar and work them than have a fixtured billet CNCed regardless of the wood's unique characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguitar71 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Read Robert benedetto's book on building an archtop and he gives a better explanation of this. The reason for book matching originated for tonal purposes. I fully understand that planing will change the visual on book matches wood but it is far more consistent tonally than using a single piece. 600 years ago there were spruce trees big enough to support a single piece top but book matching was used for tonal purposes. A single bs book matched cap on a 150 really does not change anything tonally so it comes down to availability and cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I agree. You certainly don't want to pull wood from different areas of a tree and especially not from different trees. The most consistent top will come from bookmatched pieces. Bookmatching also looks appealing from a symmetry perspective It was the word "exact" that caught my eye. Wood is neither homogeneous nor homoscedastic which immediately precludes the ability to predict an exact outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguitar71 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 It was the word "exact" that caught my eye. Wood is neither homogeneous nor homoscedastic which immediately precludes the ability to predict an exact outcome. I hear what your saying and exact is probably not a word that should ever be associated with wood or most natural products and building materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teeky Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 A great thread. I must get my eyeglass out and start counting rings. There I was thinking my Golden Eagle was only 6 years old and according to MG - it's 156 years old. WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I get the explanation regarding sitka spruce and other slow growing tight grained woods. Some woods, including various species of Maple grow much faster, and have larger growth rings. Looking at my maple capped heritages and my swamp ash G&L, I'd think it would be much easier to find trees with large enough cross sections to provide the quarter-sawn billets needed for a one piece cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 When you quartersaw a log, you only go in 1/2 way. I do enjoy the 1 piece tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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