Is the H-357 always considered a Marvbird?

[DetroitBlues]

I've seen a lot of Marvbirds, played a few of them, even the very first prototype build H-357.  

I'm lucky enough to know some great people that own them over the years, just not lucky enough to own one. But it had me thinking, I don't believe all H-357's are Marvbirds. When the H-357 model was a regular production guitar, it was simple guitar compared to later versions; opaque finishes, unbound dot inlay necks, slim neck profiles, standard Schaller pickups and hardware.    

It wasn't as an aesthetically pleasing guitar like many that came out of the factory at that time.  Essentially it was a very simple rock machine made out of neck through chunk of mahogany with glued-on wings.  Just an exotic shape like the Terminator and Exterminator models.

When the model was discontinued yet available via phone call to the Marv Lamb hotline at 225 Parsons Street did it seem the H-357 really come alive.  Natural finishes, exotic woods like Korina, multi-laminated five-piece necks, unique finish options, pickup options, Bigsby's, stingers, huge fat necks; it all became fair game....  No two were alike after that.   The HOC forum here was booming with activity and membership, almost every new Heritage post was a unique custom order, and people shared the experiences to really push the dream of owning a Marvbird.  The HOC was arguably the biggest enabler of the resurgence of the H-357 design.

But those later H-357's were vastly different than the original production line.  I believe there is a distinct difference between them and what they originally factory runs started as.  

In my opinion, the only thing that binds them together was two things; only Mr. Lamb could make the rough assembly and the shape of the H-357 itself.  From there, the original era's of H-357's depart to the later years in the 2000's.  Maybe some historians on here can tell when the H-357 made its first and last appearance in the catalog, but I believe there were several years in-between the catalog and the highly customized orders.

Please disagree with me if you like, but there really a difference between the H-357 and the Marvbird.

 

[Heritage1970]

I agree. I'm as guilty as anyone for calling them ALL "Marvbirds." Anything that has that 357/Firebird shape and was put out by Heritage, many of us have gotten used to calling them "Marvbirds" but I agree there is a difference.

From what I've seen, the 357's started in about 1988 (the prototype was built in 1987), and the latest one I've ever seen was a '93. Heritage stopped production of the 357 in 1991 from what I've heard. There seems to be a million stories about "what really happened" as to why they stopped. I've heard they were forced to from a Gibson lawsuit, and I've also heard they were just too costly to make, mainly due to the whole "neck through" construction, with no neck to body separation. There's also been much said about Marv legally being the only one that could work on them for a short time, as he was in on the original creation in Kalamazoo back in 1963. That story always sounded a little out there to me, as I don't believe anyone would have those kind of rights exclusively, unless they owned the design on a guitar. To my knowledge, Ted McCarty and Ray Dietrich were the only two names on the Firebird, although Marv did build them. 

Then Marv started taking custom orders in later years. I've seen those run from about 2011-2015. There very well could be some 2010s out there. Has anyone seen an earlier one? Chime in as I'd love to know. To me, those later models were the "Marvbirds", and the late 80's/early 90's run were "H-357s", and there is a difference, as you mentioned. ALL great guitars though! 

Hopefully more people chime in here! Interesting stuff with a million different versions of "what really happened." All great to read though! 

[big bob]

I have the first Marvbird. 
it’s an AA code

[Heritage1970]

3 minutes ago, big bob said:

I have the first Marvbird. 
it’s an AA code

Thanks! Yeah I was pretty sure there weren't any "Marvbirds" before 2010- so good to know. 

[Heritage1970]

 

[skydog52]

Marv told me he never made a prototype. 

They are all Marvbirds to me. According to Marv he made them all. He did all the tooling and templates for them.

His best estimation of how many he made was around 75. He told me he wished he would have kept a complete list of them.

He said he named the model a 357 was a little dig at Gibson for their Firebird 3, 5 and 7.

Edited yesterday at 06:00 PM by skydog52

[bolero]

I heard Marv explain 357 naming inspiration too

I was strolling through the factory once, talking to Jim Duerloo about my H-357

I didn't call it a Marvbird, I just mentioned the 357 Marv built for me & how amazing it was...

He said " THAT IS A HERITAGE GUITAR!"  in a strong voice & walked away

So I don't know who started calling them "Marvbirds" but it might rub some people the wrong way

[DetroitBlues]

11 hours ago, bolero said:

I heard Marv explain 357 naming inspiration too

I was strolling through the factory once, talking to Jim Duerloo about my H-357

I didn't call it a Marvbird, I just mentioned the 357 Marv built for me & how amazing it was...

He said " THAT IS A HERITAGE GUITAR!"  in a strong voice & walked away

So I don't know who started calling them "Marvbirds" but it might rub some people the wrong way

Unfortunately, there are a lot of stories about only Marv can make them and legal stuff with Gibson and so on.  I'm sure there is truth in there somewhere, but we will never really know without any legal documents to pour through.

But since the latest lawsuit against Gibson, the agreement back in the late 80's early 90's seems out the window.  I'm only assuming because of the H137's are now coming with pickguards.  When I helped the custom run of H137's, Heritage was legally not allowed to add a pickguard; now they do.

I wonder if this opens up the possibility of the H-357 again?  Even if they don't have the templates, modern technology can 3D scan and create a template to build from.  I have faith that Pete has the skill needed to make it happen again.

However, Marbirds if I recall were expensive for a Heritage at the time.  I could not imagine what the price tag would be today... $5000?  $10,000?

[bolero]

Well I guess the name has stuck

I've always called them Heritage H357's.

I'm not sure what ticked Jim off: it was at a PSP & maybe everyone else was fawning over them earlier. Jim is a master guitar builder too.

maybe we need a "Jimbird"?

I'm sure he's built a lot of Eagles

I think the early H357's were all mahogany?

Edited 5 hours ago by bolero
birdland

[DetroitBlues]

33 minutes ago, bolero said:

 

I think the early H357's were all mahogany?

Yes, if you go through the old catalogs, they were nothing but mahogany:

[Spectrum13]

1 hour ago, DetroitBlues said:

Yes, if you go through the old catalogs, they were nothing but mahogany:

The black and white photo looks like mahogany "wings" and could be maple in the mix.   What the old guard could not do is call it a firebird just as they never called H150 a Les Paul.