Schaller M6 tuners on Heritage H150CC....

[hopkinwfg]

Hi peeps !! 

I had manage to getta set of schaller M6 and tried retrofitting on my H150CC and sadly it sort of changes the original tone of my H150CC with its stock gotoh-ish tuners.... 

It just sound less bright imo and did a drop test vs these two and the tone diff was drastic... basically the stock tuners were slightly brighter lol i know it sound funny here but i didnt like the M6... 

Now that i am thinking if i could look at gotoh 510 tuners ? Not sure if the gotoh 510 tuners would be same material used on stock tuner? 

[Spectrum13]

Love the Gotoh products, did you change the strings when you installed the M6s?

[hopkinwfg]

40 minutes ago, Spectrum13 said:

Love the Gotoh products, did you change the strings when you installed the M6s?

Yes... it sound abit more mello and acoustically less resonant with the schaller M6 and tuner buttons were also sharper ouch disappointment... i didnt know tuner change could result on such a thing lol... i currently did some clean up on the stock and reinstalled back and i have back the toneful qualities again...

I just have no idea does the gotoh 510 will be good to go....Since quite afew have the stock tuners of their H150CC changed to gotoh whom i know... wonder what are their experiences

[bolero]

are they the same weight? heavier tuners will affect sustain & sonics, weight makes a difference

remember those weights they used to sell, people would attach to the headstock?

 

[hopkinwfg]

6 hours ago, bolero said:

are they the same weight? heavier tuners will affect sustain & sonics, weight makes a difference

remember those weights they used to sell, people would attach to the headstock?

 

@bolero ohh yes they weight different imo the schaller M6 seems to be slightly heavier compares to the original... schaller M6 no doubt felt more quality when touch but the sharper edge of the tuning buttons felt sharp....The original feels cheaper but tone rings better to my ears the tuning buttons ala grover type feels more comfortable ....

In this expect i dont know if a gotoh could share same similar tonality for tone respect to the original....

Else i might dismantle the original and swap the gears inside the tuners i guess the tone has alot to do with the coating and materials used on for tuning shell 

well i been a superstrat guy for all the while and its my first time chasing tone ever since i gotten a gibson Rs and since ever gotten myself a H150CC having coming to this extend in tone chasing... 

[DetroitBlues]

I cannot help but wonder if lack of sustain contributes to a darker tone?  Consider the strings contact the nut to the bridge, I wouldn't think it makes a difference either with the tuners unless the original tuners absorb some of the vibration?  There is also the idea behind the tailpiece and the weight and type of metal used impacts the tone.  

Since I seldom play clean enough to notice such nuances, it doesn't really impact me.  If I'm playing clean, I'll have some sort of modulation going, delay, reverb, chorus all of which impacts the tone.  Of course, when playing dirty, I really don't notice because I'm hearing more of the amp and pickups more than anything else.

Curious though, why did you change the tuners out?  I have the Heritage branded tuners on my H150 standard but only considered swapping the tuners for locking tuners for quick string changes.  However, I think I need to learn the luthier method of stringing up a guitar instead of the loop, pull, and bend over the string method.

[hopkinwfg]

10 minutes ago, DetroitBlues said:

I cannot help but wonder if lack of sustain contributes to a darker tone?  Consider the strings contact the nut to the bridge, I wouldn't think it makes a difference either with the tuners unless the original tuners absorb some of the vibration?  There is also the idea behind the tailpiece and the weight and type of metal used impacts the tone.  

Since I seldom play clean enough to notice such nuances, it doesn't really impact me.  If I'm playing clean, I'll have some sort of modulation going, delay, reverb, chorus all of which impacts the tone.  Of course, when playing dirty, I really don't notice because I'm hearing more of the amp and pickups more than anything else.

Curious though, why did you change the tuners out?  I have the Heritage branded tuners on my H150 standard but only considered swapping the tuners for locking tuners for quick string changes.  However, I think I need to learn the luthier method of stringing up a guitar instead of the loop, pull, and bend over the string method.

Ohh the stock tuner sucks lol its not as fine tuning up... at times i experience tuning up and winding up not consistant .... and the stock tuners bushing washer and bushing on my H150CC has already turn rusty... am from singapore and humidity is a big challange...i did some cleaning thou and back on... i wasted 100 bucks venturing on schaller M6.... ouch....

[DetroitBlues]

3 hours ago, hopkinwfg said:

Ohh the stock tuner sucks lol its not as fine tuning up... at times i experience tuning up and winding up not consistant .... and the stock tuners bushing washer and bushing on my H150CC has already turn rusty... am from singapore and humidity is a big challange...i did some cleaning thou and back on... i wasted 100 bucks venturing on schaller M6.... ouch....

Now that makes sense, I've heard about some problems with the tuners, I've had my Heritage H150 for a couple years now without issues.  I gig my H150 regularly and hardly ever have to adjust.  But part of quality is consistency, if there is a variance between one set of tuners to the other, there is a quality issue.  I've had many Heritages over the years, one of which is over 40 years old and still has the same Grover tuners on it that have no issues.  

[Jimbob]

Sorry to hear of your trouble with the Schaller tuners! This scenario reminds me of a time back in the '70s when there was a huge debate about installing heavier Grovers on Norlin-era Les Pauls. Of course, at the time Gibson was installing those shoddy chrome tulip tuners that no one cared for, and everyone was raving that not only were the Grovers far superior, but the shear mass of the tuners themselves helped to give the guitars better tone and more sustain, or at least that was the claim. I don't recall how much of a tonal difference they really made, but I do find it interesting that modern-day Gibson Les Paul Historic Reissues continue to feature lighter-weight Kluson-style tuners. Rarely do we see anyone replacing them with the heavier Grovers or Schallers these days, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

That said, I think we posted about this before, correct? Anyway, I decided to try the Gotoh SG381 tuners after reading the reviews that Kuz and a few others had written here. They're a direct drop-in replacement for the Heritage tuners, and I honestly didn't notice a bit of a tonal change in the guitar. I also tend to be super picky about what I'm hearing out of a guitar, too. The biggest difference that I noticed was that the tuning quality of the Gotohs was far superior to the Heritage tuners, so I've never felt any need to look any further. Plus, they're relatively inexpensive:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B012EBV47A?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

[TalismanRich]

I've only changed out one set of tuners on all of my guitars.   A few of the original Grovers on the 535 were getting tight, so I swapped to a set of Grover locking tuners.    I didn't notice any change in tone or sustain.   The improvement was merely in tuning and easier string changes.

I can change picks and hear all kinds of differences.   I've changed strings and heard differences.   

For sure there is vibration going on there... clip on tuners work even with fretted notes.   I wonder though, how much of that vibration gets all the way back down the string and into the pickups from the headstock.   Or maybe I just don't worry about minor changes.  I'm more likely to twist a knob and do gross changes.

[rockabilly69]

On 6/29/2025 at 9:55 AM, hopkinwfg said:

Yes... it sound abit more mello and acoustically less resonant with the schaller M6 and tuner buttons were also sharper ouch disappointment... i didnt know tuner change could result on such a thing lol... i currently did some clean up on the stock and reinstalled back and i have back the toneful qualities again...

I just have no idea does the gotoh 510 will be good to go....Since quite afew have the stock tuners of their H150CC changed to gotoh whom i know... wonder what are their experiences

I've switched between Gotohs 510s and Schaller M6s, for both aesthetic reasons and for different tuning ratio, 21:1 on the Gotoh 510, and cannot hear a difference. I personally love M6 tuners. I have them on a PRS and 3 Zemaitis guitars. You sure you got genuine M6 tuners, I've never heard of sharp buttons. 

 

 

Edited 43 minutes ago by rockabilly69

[rockabilly69]

Pictures, cause people like pictures...

Gotoh 510 standard 18:1

Gotoh Luxury Engraved 510 21:1

Schaller M6

Schaller M6 top locking back view

Schaller M6 top locking top view...

 

Edited 31 minutes ago by rockabilly69