SouthpawGuy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'd like to hear Steve Vai or Dave Gilmour plugged straight into an amp, no effects and a totally clean sound. That would be interesting to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'd like to hear Steve Vai or Dave Gilmour plugged straight into an amp, no effects and a totally clean sound. That would be interesting to hear. Or any CCR like Born on the Bayou without tremolo and that grinding overdrive. Or BTO You Aint Seen Nothing Yet with out od and delay. Part of the magic in the early Dire Straits is the use of external compression and phaser. The trippy phasing, panning break down in All Along The Watch Tower and then the wah'd solo that follows. Plucked harmonics with tremolo in the intro and verses of For What Its Worth and then the reverb drenched fills and leads throught the chorus's and outro(also heavily tremolo'd) Heavily overdriven a wah'd White Room Scotty Moores use of slap back echo. Duane Eddy recorded using a reverb tank the size of a room. They built it especially to create reverb. Etc Etc Etc Etc Etc and on and on. The basic premise of that artical is what the title of it says, "Technology cant help you sound better if practice is what you really need". Its not saying technology and gadgetry are bad. Well if you suck at one thing it doesnt mean you suck at another. Maybe its more not knowing your strong points or trying to be a copy of someone else that you admire rather than finding out what you sound like. What he doesnt mention are songs like Hero's, How Soon is Now etc that were created by the use of effects and how those songs wouldnt be what they are without them. Sometimes a basic knowledge of guitar, drums, keys etc but a good ear for sounds, a sense of drama, a willingness to experiment and fail and the capacity to mentaly catalogue sounds can yeild better results than spending 10hrs a day 365 days a year practicing guitar. Sometimes I see guitarists as scribes and pharisees. So rooted in the letter that the real good shit just passes them by and they cant recognise it anyway. rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111518 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Or any CCR like Born on the Bayou without tremolo and that grinding overdrive. Or BTO You Aint Seen Nothing Yet with out od and delay. Part of the magic in the early Dire Straits is the use of external compression and phaser. The trippy phasing, panning break down in All Along The Watch Tower and then the wah'd solo that follows. Plucked harmonics with tremolo in the intro and verses of For What Its Worth and then the reverb drenched fills and leads throught the chorus's and outro(also heavily tremolo'd) Heavily overdriven a wah'd White Room Scotty Moores use of slap back echo. Duane Eddy recorded using a reverb tank the size of a room. They built it especially to create reverb. Etc Etc Etc Etc Etc and on and on. The basic premise of that artical is what the title of it says, "Technology cant help you sound better if practice is what you really need". Its not saying technology and gadgetry are bad. Well if you suck at one thing it doesnt mean you suck at another. Maybe its more not knowing your strong points or trying to be a copy of someone else that you admire rather than finding out what you sound like. What he doesnt mention are songs like Hero's, How Soon is Now etc that were created by the use of effects and how those songs wouldnt be what they are without them. Sometimes a basic knowledge of guitar, drums, keys etc but a good ear for sounds, a sense of drama, a willingness to experiment and fail and the capacity to mentaly catalogue sounds can yeild better results than spending 10hrs a day 365 days a year practicing guitar. Sometimes I see guitarists as scribes and pharisees. So rooted in the letter that the real good shit just passes them by and they cant recognise it anyway. rant over Did CCR shop through a hundred boutique tremolo's before they recorded, or did they bend down and turn the knob on their amp? My point --and I think the point of the article-- is not that guitarists should ignore techology, just that we should be wary of becoming so focused on buying guitars/amps/recording eqpt/etc. that shopping becomes more central to us than actually making music. (To me, the problem is not the shopping or the buying, it's the confusion of consumption with creation. Not that they never meet ... but, buying isn't creating.) To me, this is not the "purist" argument, and seems a point worth making, but then, wouldn't want to get in the way of a good rant. And again, just an opinion, and everybodies got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Did CCR shop through a hundred boutique tremolos before they recorded, or did they bend down and turn the knob on their amp? My point --and I think the point of the article-- is not that guitarists should ignore techology, just that we should be wary of becoming so focused on buying guitars/amps/recording eqpt/etc. that shopping becomes more central to us than actually making music. (To me, the problem is not the shopping or the buying, it's the confusion of consumption with creation. Not that they never meet ... but, buying isn't creating.) To me, this is not the "purist" argument, and seems a point worth making, but then, wouldn't want to get in the way of a good rant. And again, just an opinion, and everybodies got one. I totally agree with the consumer vs musician line of thought. The train spotting and one man upmanship gone nuts. Tribal as all hell. Weird allegiances almost to the stage of religion. Fan boyism blindness. Im spun out by it, overwhelmed by it tbh. The researching of a product, the gathering of opinions and information, the weighing up of options v dollars, functions per dollar whether ever implemented or not. The subtle nuances and the different tastes on the tongue to sort out. The snake oil and hype to wade through. Its time consuming and Ive watched grown men stand motionless in complete indecision over a colour or shape verses a function or playability. Struck dumb by what theyve read on the internet forums vs what theyre confronted with in real time trials.(Ive been there myself). The wasted valuable hours driving from store to store or spent sitting in front of a computer with 30 tabs opened. I didnt take it(the artical) to be a purist type argument the guy was presenting. I agree with most of his points. But so much good stuff comes from just having a set of ears and not separating technique and technology as in theyre not detached from each other. The CCR guys were actually pretty particular about using the tremolux for the recordings they used it on btw. To be honest, Im going through an anti gear phase after making a suprise unguarded, unnecessary purchase yesterday. It was a bargain beyond what I can fathom but its only a bargain if it was something I didnt already have or need. But I already had it and didnt need it. So Im saying stuff from a negative, "grrrrr" type perspective. I'll be good in a week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonefish Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think we all need to take a step back so we can get to the core of what we love about music. For the next month, only acoustics are allowed! Once you've proven yourself to present a song in a compelling manner on an acoustic, you can begin playing on a clean electric with no effects. Once you've mastered the song cleanly on an electric, you can begin adding effects. (I am excluded from this ultimatum as I have a new amp coming in the mail. How could I resist, they promised it would improve my playing tone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koula901 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 HAIL NO! : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthpawGuy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Or any CCR like Born on the Bayou without tremolo and that grinding overdrive. Or BTO You Aint Seen Nothing Yet with out od and delay. Part of the magic in the early Dire Straits is the use of external compression and phaser. The trippy phasing, panning break down in All Along The Watch Tower and then the wah'd solo that follows. Plucked harmonics with tremolo in the intro and verses of For What Its Worth and then the reverb drenched fills and leads throught the chorus's and outro(also heavily tremolo'd) Heavily overdriven a wah'd White Room Scotty Moores use of slap back echo. Duane Eddy recorded using a reverb tank the size of a room. They built it especially to create reverb. Etc Etc Etc Etc Etc and on and on. The basic premise of that artical is what the title of it says, "Technology cant help you sound better if practice is what you really need". Its not saying technology and gadgetry are bad. Well if you suck at one thing it doesnt mean you suck at another. Maybe its more not knowing your strong points or trying to be a copy of someone else that you admire rather than finding out what you sound like. What he doesnt mention are songs like Hero's, How Soon is Now etc that were created by the use of effects and how those songs wouldnt be what they are without them. Sometimes a basic knowledge of guitar, drums, keys etc but a good ear for sounds, a sense of drama, a willingness to experiment and fail and the capacity to mentaly catalogue sounds can yeild better results than spending 10hrs a day 365 days a year practicing guitar. Sometimes I see guitarists as scribes and pharisees. So rooted in the letter that the real good shit just passes them by and they cant recognise it anyway. rant over Impressive rant . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 with the amount of choice & opinions these days it really is about personal vision, above all else don't forget to buy, buy, buy...." man, if I only had *that* it would be so much better!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 the article reminded me I need to practice more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 the article reminded me I need to practice more... And for me to spend less time on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 .... Plus, the more FX you have, the easier it is to mask mistakes and lack of talent! And your point is???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 And for me to spend less time on here... LOL..Yep.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 hey detroitblues, those cigar box gtrs look awesome!! very cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjkrause84 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I can't imagine that anyone genuinely buy things hoping it'll improve they're playing....I think assuming that people think that is insulting the intelligence of pretty much every guitarist out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I found the article refreshing, and unexpected, given that it was published in a magazine whose profits are generated by selling advertising for more and more gear. In my opinion, 95-98% of the "signal path" that influences the musicality and tone of what a guitarist plays is between ears-brain-fingers, and yet we, myself included, devote a wildly disproportionate amount of time to the 5% or less accounted for by gear. Why? I guess my opinion on that is too political for current board standards. Suffice to say that I love guitars and amps for their craftsmanship and distinctive design, and for their distinctive sounds and feels, but, I have no illusion that new gear is going to make me a better player or even fundamentally change my tone. That comes from talent, certainly, but perhaps more significantly, from work. (and a good thing for me, since I don't have much talent.) My two cents, of course. I'm with you. I really like gear! I like a well made well crafted piece of equipment. I like reading about them, and shopping for them. If I was not reading about, playing with,and shopping for music gear I'm sure I would be doing the same thing with surfing gear, or cooking gadgets. I don't pretend that gear makes me a better player. Practice makes you a better, and playing out live trumps practice any day. That being said I look at gear collecting like some people look at book collecting. I would love to have a great gear library some day. Do we need more gear..... No Does it make us play better.... No Does it make us play worse.... No Does it make us feel better... YES.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I just bought a new strat, so I keep saying, but over the few days Ive had it Ive come up with some new licks and approaches. It made me change my style when I played it, its sound made me hear things that my other strats didnt deliver. My playing over the last few days has been slightly elevated and taken out of the rut a little simply by playing a different guitar. I could have spent months playing my other strat and never even thought of trying some of the stuff I have over the last couple of days. You can practice the mechanics of it all on anything but for a little inspiration nothing beats a new guitar and good amp. The new strat even makes me try different sounds from different amps that I thought I was over and ready to sell. Even though Im going through an anti gear phase and am selling a lot of stuff(any one in Australia feel free to contact me ) Im still willing to admit that there is no replacement for new and inspirational sounds. There is no apples or oranges or black and white in this discussion only different shades of all the colours and lots of different fruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm with you. I really like gear! I like a well made well crafted piece of equipment. I like reading about them, and shopping for them. If I was not reading about, playing with,and shopping for music gear I'm sure I would be doing the same thing with surfing gear, or cooking gadgets. I don't pretend that gear makes me a better player. Practice makes you a better, and playing out live trumps practice any day. That being said I look at gear collecting like some people look at book collecting. I would love to have a great gear library some day. Do we need more gear..... No Does it make us play better.... No Does it make us play worse.... No Does it make us feel better... YES.. To continue that train of thought When we feel better do we play more guitar....YES When we play more guitar, do we get better....YES So, better gear makes us better guitarists I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalismanRich Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 The article makes some good points. Effects don't make you a pro guitar player any more than buying a Super KB will make you play as well as Kenny Burrell. Its one thing to buy gear thinking that if you get certain gear it will make you play like a particular player because it will give you his "tone" (whatever that is). But can different gear make you play better than you already do? ABSOLUTELY. The key is to find equipment that fits you, feels good, and sounds good to you. A guitar with the wrong neck, string spacing, weight or electronics might make it hard for you to play correctly. Everyone has picked up guitars and put them right back on the stand because they don't feel right to them. I find the same thing when I play golf. Will buying Phil Mickelson's clubs make you hit the ball 300 yards? No. But finding a set that has the right weight and feel can make you hit the ball straighter and longer. The wrong club can make you spray the ball all over the course! Guitars are no different. I play all my guitars because they feel good and sound good to me. I don't have any PRS guitars because they just don't feel right to me. My old Fender Jaguar played ok, but I couldn't find the sound I wanted. It was replaced with my Guild S100 which I still have. I have 4 Heritages not only because they are made by Heritage, but because I like the way they play. My G&Ls are the same. I played a Melancon that played PERFECTLY for me. (didn't buy it because I'm a bit hesitant to drop another $2K on a guitar right now). I tried a Rickenbacker but It didn't set my world on fire. Given the choice between an Accomplice and a Patriot, I took the Patriot because that was the sound I was looking for. I have gear that I don't use often, but there times when I want to hear what they do. So I keep it for those occasions. Other effects stay around all the time (my MiniDejaVibe and TS9 and Vox Wah). For me... gear is good, as long as its the right gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 hey detroitblues, those cigar box gtrs look awesome!! very cool Thanks, pretty simple to make. I have the stuff to make more of them, just need the time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 To continue that train of thought When we feel better do we play more guitar....YES When we play more guitar, do we get better....YES So, better gear makes us better guitarists I rest my case. Is that why my KPB RD I sold you sounded so good when you stopped by? Was it because of that sweet Millie you brought with you???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Is that why my KPB RD I sold you sounded so good when you stopped by? Was it because of that sweet Millie you brought with you???? You bet. You should also hear how good the G&L with single coil alnicos sounds through it. Talk about sparkle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 To continue that train of thought When we feel better do we play more guitar....YES When we play more guitar, do we get better....YES So, better gear makes us better guitarists I rest my case. Good Point!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The article makes some good points. Effects don't make you a pro guitar player any more than buying a Super KB will make you play as well as Kenny Burrell. Its one thing to buy gear thinking that if you get certain gear it will make you play like a particular player because it will give you his "tone" (whatever that is). But can different gear make you play better than you already do? ABSOLUTELY. The key is to find equipment that fits you, feels good, and sounds good to you. A guitar with the wrong neck, string spacing, weight or electronics might make it hard for you to play correctly. Everyone has picked up guitars and put them right back on the stand because they don't feel right to them. I find the same thing when I play golf. Will buying Phil Mickelson's clubs make you hit the ball 300 yards? No. But finding a set that has the right weight and feel can make you hit the ball straighter and longer. The wrong club can make you spray the ball all over the course! Guitars are no different. I play all my guitars because they feel good and sound good to me. I don't have any PRS guitars because they just don't feel right to me. My old Fender Jaguar played ok, but I couldn't find the sound I wanted. It was replaced with my Guild S100 which I still have. I have 4 Heritages not only because they are made by Heritage, but because I like the way they play. My G&Ls are the same. I played a Melancon that played PERFECTLY for me. (didn't buy it because I'm a bit hesitant to drop another $2K on a guitar right now). I tried a Rickenbacker but It didn't set my world on fire. Given the choice between an Accomplice and a Patriot, I took the Patriot because that was the sound I was looking for. I have gear that I don't use often, but there times when I want to hear what they do. So I keep it for those occasions. Other effects stay around all the time (my MiniDejaVibe and TS9 and Vox Wah). For me... gear is good, as long as its the right gear! That's true, and in some cases more gear is good..Let me explain..Since I got my "Cavern Club 30" from Brian, I have used it exclusively..But Saturday night we played a house gig that had seriously limited space, So I took my C-30..I had forgotten how good that amp sounded..Not Chimey like the KBP 810 but nice sounding..It was perfect for the small room we were playing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 You bet. You should also hear how good the G&L with single coil alnicos sounds through it. Talk about sparkle Aw man! You dog you! I bet it does sound rather good!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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