yoslate Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Well, my amp build progresses. I'll get tech details from George, as I know a bunch of you guys know tons about guts and might be interested. I'm not very "science" oriented at all. I just make a point of knowing guys like George Bitar, local musician and amp builder. George is an engineer at Volvo truck, here in town. He's building a 40W El 34 head for me. George is knowledgeable, clever, experienced, and relentless in his tweezing. So Sunday, I got an e-mail that he's "got sound" from the chassis. The only detail I know is that he's using Hammond audiophile transformers and that the shipping weight on the two of them was thirteen pounds...they're really beefy iron! The chassis is a work of art, clean, purposeful, all business. Two channels, clean and gain; a master volume; and hi, mid, and low end controls; a "touch sensitivity" control, and a verb (Accusonics) control. So I plugged the ASAT into the head, which was running a 2x12 cab with the Mojo equivalent of Greenback Celestions. George says he wants to do some more "tone sculpting," but what I heard, I really liked. The clean channel is very warm with bright (not at all shrill) highs that really ring. It has tons of low end punch. The gain channel has too much hair for me at the high end, but guys who like Big Crunch from a wound up Marshall would approve, I think. May have him shave that a bit. Backing the gain off gives more and less warm edge that really sustains, responds to right hand business (different picking techniques, using fingers, damping notes with the palm, pinch harmonics) that make this thing an actual instrument in itself. So we'll get together for some more sessions at which I'll explain "more this, less that," in woefully inadequate terms, while I bang away on various guitars. I'm very interested to hear how it does with the hollowbodies and humbuckers. When we're done, off it will go to Ken Jones for the cabinet, which we've already designed, using an old Masco PA head for inspiration. Ken will also build matching 1x12 and 2x12 cabinets for me. Never thought I'd do this, but man, is it fun! It will be finished in plenty of time for PSPII! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 How cool is that?!!! There is one local guy here capable of this but his loyalty is firmly fixed on Fenders. I would Love to know somebody here capable of this and build "the" amp. It sounds like your foundation is solid. 13 lbs of Iron is a wonderful place to start. You're a Lucky Man Yoslate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I would love to be involved with a project like this. Awesome for you. I wouldnt know where to start. Or where to end. Was there a particular tone reference you started with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted May 26, 2009 Author Share Posted May 26, 2009 I would love to be involved with a project like this. Awesome for you.I wouldnt know where to start. Or where to end. Was there a particular tone reference you started with? tully, there's a hybrid "sound in my head," which I've had since the sixties.... I'll let it go at that. It comes from some nether region between vintage 100W Marshall ( I had a defiinitive one for a while, in the early eighties) and tweed and blackface Fender. One of the difficulties so far has been to convey what I "hear" to George, in distinctly non-technical terms. One advantage is that he's heard me play a fair bit. And yep, Steiner, I am, if anything, lucky!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Very cool Rob!!! Congrats!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 So...the build on "The Note," my El 34 is complete! George just needs to do some tweeking and a bit of trouble shooting. I did another shakedown with it yesterday. What I want is certainly in there. But there were some other guys at George's with some amps to A/B (another one of George's, a Bogner Duende, some Chinese 50W Crate)...too many distractions for me to do much meaningful dialing in, at all. Plus, there was considerable hum in the overdrive channel. We couldn't figure out if it was the house, my G&L, lighting circuits, gremlins, too much testosterone, or some combination of all that. And as I'd said, too many distractions, so I came away from the two hours just kind of frustrated. I haven't even mentioned the cabinet. Ken Jones received the final measurements last Monday. He called the house Wednesday night to tell me it was finished! Proprietary Diaz, green tolex; 3/4 radius edges; and lots of matte black grill, which shows just about all of the guts. It turned out much better than I'd imagined or hoped! Ken is a masterful cabinetmaker (among others, he builds all of Greg Germino's). No pictures of the chassis in the cabinet yet, but I'll post those as soon as George sends me some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopeteygo Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 So...the build on "The Note," my El 34 is complete! George just needs to do some tweeking and a bit of trouble shooting. I did another shakedown with it yesterday. What I want is certainly in there. But there were some other guys at George's with some amps to A/B (another one of George's, a Bogner Duende, some Chinese 50W Crate)...too many distractions for me to do much meaningful dialing in, at all. Plus, there was considerable hum in the overdrive channel. We couldn't figure out if it was the house, my G&L, lighting circuits, gremlins, too much testosterone, or some combination of all that. And as I'd said, too many distractions, so I came away from the two hours just kind of frustrated. I haven't even mentioned the cabinet. Ken Jones received the final measurements last Monday. He called the house Wednesday night to tell me it was finished! Proprietary Diaz, green tolex; 3/4 radius edges; and lots of matte black grill, which shows just about all of the guts. It turned out much better than I'd imagined or hoped! Ken is a masterful cabinetmaker (among others, he builds all of Greg Germino's). No pictures of the chassis in the cabinet yet, but I'll post those as soon as George sends me some. Clean and unclean.....hehe. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Clean and unclean.....hehe. I like it. Didn't occur to me until after the faceplate was finished, but the next one might read "kosher" and "cloven." Thanks for noticing, gopete'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushover Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I'm curious what brand tubes you used? Putting some new tubes in my MM and it takes EL 34's, and what's in there now aren't available any more. I have the added complication that it has voltages higher than usual (750V) so it's got to be a high quality tube to last for any length of time. So I'm curious which brand you chose, and how they sound to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushover Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Clean and unclean.....hehe. I like it. Kinda like my thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Sweet Slate! Any reason the Off is mid position on the switch? It seems counter productive to warm up the tubes then travel off before firing up the amp i.e., voltage and current spike. That is a Sweet looking amp! If it sounds half as good you're in for some Quality Time! Are you bringing it to PSPII? Can I ride your pony? With respect, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Sweet Slate! Any reason the Off is mid position on the switch? It seems counter productive to warm up the tubes then travel off before firing up the amp i.e., voltage and current spike. That is a Sweet looking amp! If it sounds half as good you're in for some Quality Time! Are you bringing it to PSPII? Can I ride your pony? With respect, of course! Steiner: Ha! In my rapture, I'd subliminally noticed that, but hadn't put any question to it. I'll ask George. I think it actually looks half as good as it sounds...wait 'til you see it in the cab!!! And you bet I'm taking it to PSPII. I'd be delighted for you to take it for a spin and file a review! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Steiner:Ha! In my rapture, I'd subliminally noticed that, but hadn't put any question to it. I'll ask George. I think it actually looks half as good as it sounds...wait 'til you see it in the cab!!! And you bet I'm taking it to PSPII. I'd be delighted for you to take it for a spin and file a review! You Sir, are what is commonly referred to as "The Man!" Add another bit of longing and anticipation to the list! I'll be there with bells on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Looking forward to meeting you and "getting together over one"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Pushover: Tubes are: 12AY Electro-Harmonix 12AX Tung-Sol (drive channel) 12AT Jan-Philips (New Old Stock, better use them while we still can) EL34 Tung-Sol The high-voltage rail is 385 volts DC. Power section is cathode bias push-pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxdx99 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Some FINE looking hardware there, boss. Pretty cool that it's actually coined 'the note'. Looking forward to hearing that one, for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbright Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Looks fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum13 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Looks great! What does it sould like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Looks great! What does it sould like? As I'd entered earlier, Spectrum, tough for me to tell, as of the last test drive, Saturday. At an "amp shootout" at George's, too many guys, too many amps for me to get a fix on just this one. He wanted to A/B it with other boxes, so he invited some guys and their gear over. Best context for the shakedown would have been: just me, the amp, Les Paul and 576 and Legacy, with no distractions. Also, there was a really loud irritating hum, like a ground problem, or a poorly shielded guitar, or flourescent fixture, in the drive channel. But George was working on it yesterday, and we'll have another go, without the distractions of a dag fest, this evening. Best I could tell: With all the settings flat, through a 2x12 cab, loaded with Mojo's answer to Greenback Celestions, the clean channel is clean, clear and fat. Single coils sound robust and their innate character and complexity is very there! The neck p'up on the Legacy was full and round and almost hollowbody in its warmth. Plenty legitimate "jazz" tone. The out-of-phase positions really honked, with a very full bottom end and clean, clear highs, but without the "chime" I was hoping to hear. The bridge p'up cracked nicely, with little of the inherent metallic thinness I sometimes hear in it through, say, a Deluxe RI, or even my Vibrolux...but then this isn't a 6L6 amp. The Seth Lovers (I love these pickups!) were big and really well balanced through the amp's clean channel. The neck p'up was particularly warm and articulate, and the middle position had a punchy, clear Bloomfield honk to it. The drive channel was problematic in that it was hard for me to get past the hum. The hum wasn't "radioactive" bad, but it was more "there" than it should have been and requires a fix! I'd played it two weeks ago, before the reverb tank (Accutronics...very nice!) was installed, and, wound up, it really crunched. I told George I had no use for all that, and I asked him to back off about 35% of that. He did, but maybe we took out just a bit much. If I ever want it, it'd be nice to have it. He had one of his El 84 amps there, a 15W number, through a 1x12 cab, Really Heavy one, made with 3/4 inch plywood. Sounded like the best Marshall I've ever played. I hear that tone in a lot of recent recordings, but not what I'm really looking for. So with the hum and everything else, I didn't get a very good fix on the drive channel. Did get to listen to someone else play through it, a guy who's into prog rock, a very good player, using a PRS. Pretty warm sustain, with a bit of an edge, which sounded best with the reverb off, which surprised me. That seemed to be approaching overdriven tweed tone. But I didn't get enough of a listen to draw any useful conclusion. So maybe I'll get an objective shot at the thing tonight. Hope so anyway; and really hope George has resolved that hum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 With cab. Should wring it out again in an hour or so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I'm still smiling at the 'Clean' and 'Unclean' knobs!!! Congrats on a great amp build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 With cab. Should wring it out again in an hour or so.... Rob, That is one stunning looking amp you've got there! Looking forward to hearing it in July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxdx99 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Rob, That is one stunning looking amp you've got there! Looking forward to hearing it in July. Whoa - yeh, certainly got the aesthetics right! Dark, Mysterious, Dangerous... just like it's owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I bet you'll get a wide array of cunning stunts from that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 ...get a wide array of cunning stunts...! Isn't that why many of us picked up guitars in the first place...? And thanks for the comments, fellas! The aesthetic I was trying for was a sort of 50's tasty electro-industrial. I wanted to be able to see the works glow in the dark! Didn't make it to George's last night, real life intruded. We're planning on annoying his neighbors Wednesday evening, for a final diddle, then I'll take it home and start gigging it to fine tune it. Anybody want to chip in some cabinet and speaker wisdom. I've gone back to some old threads. I'm ready to have Ken put something together and would be very interested in anyone's $.02! Bunch of you guys know a ton! Some of the parameters: portability and smaller footprint (I'm open to 2x12, as well as 1x12); chime; fairly transparent highs; punch; mild "tweedy" breakup; cleans up real well at lower volumes, without losing character; don't know what to think about speaker efficiency; love Greenbacks, but not married to them (Do they make a 30W Greenback?); had good luck with Eminence (Man-O-War and Screamin' Eagle). I'm soliciting wisdom.... Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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