JeffB Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 In my case it became a no-brainer as soon as I received my Axe-Fx Ultra. It just has sooo many more possibilities then ANY amp out there, and I don't just mean the multitude of available amps & efx. The connection possibilities far exceed even the most flexible of tube amps and with a minimum of hassle. For example stop and think of all the hoops you have to jump through if you want to record a tube amp, choosing efx, mics, mic placement, all the extra cabling, and most importantly the time invested in setting all this up....time and time again, especially if your doing multi-track recording. Yesterday I got a Tascam 24 track recorder and it was so nice to be able to run a single S/PDIF (digital audio) cable from the output of the Axe-Fx to the input of the DAW and start laying down tracks without having to do anything more then punching buttons and adjusting sliders on the DAW to make changes (tracks etc.). Using this method keeps everything in the digital domain from the input of the Axe-Fx to the finished product that comes out of the built in CD burner in the DAW, there is NO loss due to D/A or A/D conversions. This is just one example of the many ways the Axe-Fx outshines tube amps, and keep in mind of course this is just IMO. You make it all sound so hard!! It really isnt a chore to mic up a speaker cab and the cost of a few extra cables is minimal. I record a lot with acoustics and real drums( hate digital drum loops) so the dollars spent on mics patch bays and cables will never be a waste. I think the best blend is a combination of digital modelling for amp and cabs fx etc and real amps and stomps. Not one item in my opinion is the be all end all. I enjoy the recording process and before I hit the record button I generally have played the song maybe a couple of hundred times just to get the lyrics and phrasing right and committed to memory. In that time I generally get a clear idea of the mood or atmosphere of the song. The guitar sounds are going to happen naturally (or not) regardless of the means I use to generate them and bumping a mic around 20mm is just as cathartic and easy as editing parameters. I dont have as severe noise or space constraints others have so those might be other reasons I dont see the benefit of amp modelling and speaker simulation over the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koula901 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 But... could you listen to a single recording with nothing to reference other than the rerecording and definitively tell whether or not a tube amp is producing it? I am guessing no as that would the case for the vast majority of people save for a very, very select few. The thing is, going from tube amp to tube amp there is a tone difference and some are so far apart from each other, saying that there is a 'tube' tone really has a hard time being applied. In my opinion, I think the tube thing really is in the mind. That isn't writing it off at all. I mean, if you feel better about the gear you are playing through, then you will play better through it too... or at least you perceive yourself doing so where as an average listener-on will not even notice. It is one of those only I will know it is a Cube and only you will know it is a Tube. But, I wonder how pedals would interact with the non-tube amps. But, I wonder how pedals would interact with the non-tube amps; and, would a non-tube amp, set to a dirty sound, clean up when rollilng down the volume pot on the guitar. apologies for the double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hinesarchtop Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I can't help being a tube amp guy. I was raised on old Fenders and then Marshalls too. I do use a solid state Acoustic Image amp lately for jazz, but for certain sounds/vibes can't beat a Fender twin jazz wise. I know they have dialed in a lot of the tube amp nuance and sensitivity, and would like to have an axfx for studio stuff, but can't imagine Hendrix sounding the way he sounded without cranked plexi's. The quirkiness of a tube amp is highly desirable to me, Same thing with a Strat. It would be fun to do a blindfold test. Does my GDEC count? haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The one problem I can point out about a solid state amp is they do sound much better at low volumes and you can use headphones.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsanders Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 ...So is there really that big of a gap b/w today's modeling amps and tube amps in terms of clean/clear tone? have tried Axe-FX, Eleven Rack, Line6 stuff, Roland Cube stuff. all fun to use. haven't found one to replace my favorite tube amps. tones are good, but feel & control ain't there - but that would, strictly speaking, be a digression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I can't help being a tube amp guy. I was raised on old Fenders and then Marshalls too. I do use a solid state Acoustic Image amp lately for jazz, but for certain sounds/vibes can't beat a Fender twin jazz wise. I know they have dialed in a lot of the tube amp nuance and sensitivity, and would like to have an axfx for studio stuff, but can't imagine Hendrix sounding the way he sounded without cranked plexi's. The quirkiness of a tube amp is highly desirable to me, Same thing with a Strat. It would be fun to do a blindfold test. Does my GDEC count? haha. The thought of having a host of different amps available is nice to think about and would be cool to have at my disposal. Even the modelling efforts like axefx kind of yank my chain in a lot of ways. The fact is when Im a complete realist about it I tend to use only 3-4 sounds and variations on those which can be achieved by using the eq and gain controls. I will try and get those sounds out of any amp I use even if I throw a stomp in front. On my line6 podxt live I have one bank of user presets I made up to use if my real amp ever goes down, the rest of the presets (95? i think!) are no mans land. So when it come to a Kemper or a Axefx I have to wonder if its really anything that I need. Between the amps, stomps and guitars I have the only thing thats stopping me from getting the sounds I want is my inability to use the very nice tools/toys I have in a meaningful way. Technique, attitude and a good ear are probably the best tone/effect devises you can invest in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have a confession to make..I played a Line 6 product for many years and enjoyed the hell out of it..Very reliable and Loud for the Hard rock band I was in at the time..But, i've since moved back to the tube camp..and am very eagerly awaiting the arrival of my KBP 810 "Cavern Club 30" in the next couple of months..It's a simple single channel design, built to sound like an AC-30 with a Fenderish reverb..Should be SWEET!! Probably have a ALNICO type speaker for a bit of breakup at higher volumes..I'm hopeful this will be my "casket amp" if you know what I mean.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Great topic! I was once the tube driven die hard that couldnt be convinced otherwise...... But lately theres been some astonishing modelers produced and i now am totally sold on them. In a nut shell you cant beat getting 15 different legendary amps at your fingertips with no hassle of hiss'es, crackles, pops, warm up's,tube changes and biasing. On top of a limitless choice of amps you get noise gates, looping, direct recording, and a bazillion different effects to dial into which ever amp channel you decide. And all of this sounds perfect crisp and spot on to the originals for a mere fraction of what it would cost to buy everything individually. To me it's a no brainer and i love em. And thank god for this breakthrough technology. It's like a proffesional dream studio for about 600.00 bucks! I mean common does it really get any better than that!!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 But, I wonder how pedals would interact with the non-tube amps. apologies for the double post. handles them just fine. Amps like the JC120 are known for how well they take pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Truthfully, I use maybe 3-4 tones...and they are all on the Cube... AND ... I have reverb, delay, phaser, chorus, looper, lead channel... and all of them are great and usable. Sure, there is a cool classic vibe about a nice tube amp....but truthfully I don't get moved too much by that when it comes to my amp sounds. Tube or not, all I care about really is the sound in my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Another cool amp (from what I hear) to try is the Fender Mustang III. I am hearing GREAT things about them although I have never tried one myself. They MSRP for about $400 so you can probably snag one for about $300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 a friend of mine just got an Egnater and said to me "dude, you were right....you've been telling me to get a tube amp for years, I can't believe how great this thing sounds" he's been using line6, vox ss, roland, peavey EVH, amp sims & all kinds of stuff until now he said Egnater is based in Michigan too, is this true? if so lots of good stuff going on in Michigan, heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbp810 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 a friend of mine just got an Egnater and said to me "dude, you were right....you've been telling me to get a tube amp for years, I can't believe how great this thing sounds" he's been using line6, vox ss, roland, peavey EVH, amp sims & all kinds of stuff until now he said Egnater is based in Michigan too, is this true? if so lots of good stuff going on in Michigan, heh Egnater is yes; but to clarify, their commercially available products are made in China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 what am I thinking...I should tell him to order a KBP810!! what do you make that will get Billy Gibbons sounds, at moderate volume for practice but is loud enough for gigging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbp810 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 what am I thinking...I should tell him to order a KBP810!! what do you make that will get Billy Gibbons sounds, at moderate volume for practice but is loud enough for gigging? A sharp dressed 40 watt amp with legs and a giant beard? I think Billy often went between a Tweed Deluxe and Marshal Plexi... amongst many other amps, I'm sure (someone feel free to chime in on that, I'm a fan of Billy, but haven't meticulously followed his favored gear setups). Those are two fairly different sounds, but the first thing that comes to my mind based on what I've built so far might be a 2xEL34 50 watt ODS with the HRM tonestack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 A sharp dressed 40 watt amp with legs and a giant beard? I think Billy often went between a Tweed Deluxe and Marshal Plexi... amongst many other amps, I'm sure (someone feel free to chime in on that, I'm a fan of Billy, but haven't meticulously followed his favored gear setups). Those are two fairly different sounds, but the first thing that comes to my mind based on what I've built so far might be a 2xEL34 50 watt ODS with the HRM tonestack. Now that would be VERY cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Not trying to hijack the thread (I was accused of this once already this week) but I looked through this book at a store a few years ago, and was awestruck at the guys guitar collection. I'm sure they went over the amps, too, but nothing sticks out at me. Cool book for us ZZ Top fans. http://www.amazon.com/Billy-Gibbons-Rock-Roll-Gearhead/dp/0760322694 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Not trying to hijack the thread (I was accused of this once already this week) but I looked through this book at a store a few years ago, and was awestruck at the guys guitar collection. I'm sure they went over the amps, too, but nothing sticks out at me. Cool book for us ZZ Top fans. http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0760322694 I'll help you in your hijacking Brian !!! LOL The Reverend is infamously known for purposely misleading Guitar Player readers on his gear to get his tone. I read where it is a very simple rig in the early days with most of their hits. Just a '59 Les Paul through a cranked Tweed Deluxe. No wall of Marshalls with 6 RAT pedals, I guess all of that was just backdrop for the stage. Just a Les Paul through a cranked Tweed and some great talent & fingers. His rig might be more complicated after Eliminator, but I have heard he still gets a kick telling people they need this mysterious pedal with a special mod to get his tone, when he never used it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbp810 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 That's an awesome story Kuz! I can't say I blame him... with the all the amps I've built and/or owned, I keep going right back to my tweed deluxe again and again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsanders Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Billy F's touring rig, uploaded by Premier Guitar last June: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's funny how billy gibbons sound is deeper and fatter than just about anyones and he plays 7 gauge strings with a hollowed out 5 pound les paul. Kinda confirms you dont need a 46 pound 150 with 13 gauge strings to sound deep and throaty. Like i always said your tone is in your amp and effects chain, and hands. Proof is in the puddin....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Do Tweed Deluxes or other tweeds for that matter typically have reverb? I have a reverb addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Do Tweed Deluxes or other tweeds for that matter typically have reverb? I have a reverb addiction. Typically no reverb in Tweed amps, certainly not in any vintage tweed amps. There could be someone out there that is now making Tweed amps with reverb, but not with the original designs or re-issue Tweeds. Since most of the time you are playing a Tweed so it will break up (Tweed amps are sought out for their distortion/over drive qualities) most people never miss or need the reverb. I thought I would miss the reverb myself but the tone is so good that you don't really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 easy enough to add a standalone reverb if you want it....Neil Young famously does this with his tweed deluxe I have that BillyG book ( actually the same buddy gave it to me lol ) it's a great coffee table staple ps what is the "HRM tonestack"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfan Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Typically no reverb in Tweed amps, certainly not in any vintage tweed amps. There could be someone out there that is now making Tweed amps with reverb, but not with the original designs or re-issue Tweeds. Since most of the time you are playing a Tweed so it will break up (Tweed amps are sought out for their distortion/over drive qualities) most people never miss or need the reverb. I thought I would miss the reverb myself but the tone is so good that you don't really. Ahh..so one less sub circuit to fail, one less tube to buy...cool. How are they at low volumes? Guess I need to do some you tubing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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