big bob Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 But that depends on what type of glue is used , doesn't it? Some vintage style glues produce more sustain ... Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonefish Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Doesn't Gold have a bit more resonance than chrome? So that additional chime may actual be coming from the pickup covers and tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Doesn't Gold have a bit more resonance than chrome? So that additional chime may actual be coming from the pickup covers and tuners. Yes it does, that's why a gold top will sustain at least 2.78654% longer than a burst finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Geez, there is no tone or tonal difference between a 150 or 157 that I can tell. It has to do more with the individual guitar's wood density, set up, pickups, and any number of other variables. No two 150's or no two 157's will sound exactly alike. Every guitar is a different animal...plus, each is made by hand, lending itself to even more sonic variables. The main differences between the two are mainly cosmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Geez, there is no tone or tonal difference between a 150 or 157 that I can tell. It has to do more with the individual guitar's wood density, set up, pickups, and any number of other variables. No two 150's or no two 157's will sound exactly alike. Every guitar is a different animal...plus, each is made by hand, lending itself to even more sonic variables. The main differences between the two are mainly cosmetic. Ah, ya had ta go and spoil the fun, didn'tcha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Great tone is in the fingers, as others say. How the note is approached, how the pick is held, where it is held, how much pressure is put on it, etc. All of that matters. Also, I definitely agree that good wood is GOOD WOOD. I've played great sounding guitars made of swamp ash, alder, poplar, basswood, maple, mahogany, walnut, etc. If it's a good piece of wood, it'll sound good. As for the H-157 vs H-150, it depends on what the specs are. Heritage builds custom guitars, so you could get an ebony board on a H150 or a rosewood board on an h 157 if you wanted. Originally, the Les Paul Customs that the H157's are based on were all mahogany with ebony boards, so the sound would be different. Now they have maple tops, so it's mainly the ebony board and pickups that are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HRB853370 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Geez, there is no tone or tonal difference between a 150 or 157 that I can tell. It has to do more with the individual guitar's wood density, set up, pickups, and any number of other variables. No two 150's or no two 157's will sound exactly alike. Every guitar is a different animal...plus, each is made by hand, lending itself to even more sonic variables. The main differences between the two are mainly cosmetic. Amen Tim. You nailed it and there should be no further controversy on this subject, which is very subjective anyhow! Ah, ya had ta go and spoil the fun, didn'tcha! Yes he did. And I am glad he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Amen Tim. You nailed it and there should be no further controversy on this subject, which is very subjective anyhow! Yes he did. And I am glad he did. This lack of gas has made you a grumpy Gus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 This lack of gas has made you a grumpy Gus. He should have a chat with High Flying Bird. I'm sure he could get some gas into Slammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 By way of comparison , would you expect a Strat with a rosewood board to change tone if swapped for a neck with an ebony board? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 By way of comparison , would you expect a Strat with a rosewood board to change tone if swapped for a neck with an ebony board? ... No... But I guess I must process the signal more than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonefish Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Amen Tim. You nailed it and there should be no further controversy on this subject, which is very subjective anyhow! Yes he did. And I am glad he did. I can understand the controversy being eliminated if it was objective, but it's subjective. So, why wouldn't there be controversy (or, discussion). Besides, I don't understand why the "no, their can't possibly be any tonal difference because good tone is all in the fingers camp" gets so worked up about this sorta thing. The question is not "how do I get good tone?" The question is, "what are differences in tone between guitars, what causes it, and is there any difference between models or are the differences natural differences that would be expected within the same model as well." Sure, the thickness of the pick, how it's held, how the string is attacked all impact the tone. You could also add string thickness, tuning, cable type, amp type, and usage of tone controls to that list as well. All of those things impact tone. And we all agree that good tone wood will yield good tone if used properly. But depending on the tone wood, the tone will be different. And depending on who is playing it, that tone may be good or bad. But, the discussion was centered around the difference in tone between two guitars, not good vs bad tone. Ok, so clearly I've hijacked my topic in my efforts to stop my topic from being hijacked. I just don't get why the "Tone is all in the fingers" people feel the need to post on every topic about tone. If you think tone is all in the fingers and tonewood is tonewood, we know. We saw your last thirty posts. But for those of us that like this sorta conversation, why do you try and ruin all our fun by telling us our conversation is stupid and that's the end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I'll give you a straight answer. The difference between an ebony and rosewood board, which is the only consistent difference between the 150 and 157, is trivial or even less in affecting the amplified clean tones. The slight tonal difference is dwarfed by all of the other variables in the build of the guitar. Most of what you read about nuanced tonal differences is crap. The perceptions are more about player bias than frequency spectral analysis. Much of marketing is based on creating expectations based on image, rumor, and association. These same psychological principles that sell widgets act to distort our every perception, including sound. In this way gold hardware and a great burst will also influence what we hear. Even the name on the headstock will affect what we judge the sounds to be. As a student of food marketing, I can tell you that much research has been done in the realm of influencing taste, pleasure, and consumption based on packaging and product placement. Powerful principles are known and used on us daily. The retail music industry also uses them. Look at any issue of Guitar Player. So take any opinion on tone woods with a grain of salt. Doesn't it bother anyone that there is no published objective study on this? Could it be that the emperor has no clothes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCovach Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 It is true that many of the factors we often talk about have only a subtle effect on tone. Add a few more instruments playing on the gig and it becomes even harder to distinguish differences. Sometimes differences in feel and response can be lumped into tone, and these are noticeable mostly only to the player. Playing approach and technique are the biggest factors, and this is true across instruments, some more than others. Still, there's nothing wrong with savoring the differences between instruments, designs, and features, even if it can be "cork sniffing" in some cases. My own approach is to buy as many guitars as I can--purely in the interests of empirical accuracy, of course. Given that disclaimer, I can say that the 157's I've owned have been brighter than my 150's, and have felt a little "harder" somehow. Maybe that's a reaction to the less comfortable feel owing to the rear binding, or maybe it's the ebony board, or maybe I just got a couple of heavy ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Compared to all the other factors involved, the effect a fret board wood species has on a guitar's tone is about as significant as a flea crawling up an elephant's butt with rape on it's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonefish Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Compared to all the other factors involved, the effect a fret board wood species has on a guitar's tone is about as significant as a flea crawling up an elephant's butt with rape on it's mind. Significant in relation to whom, the flea or the elephant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I don't think either the flea or the elephant has much to worry about in this analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I think that in various parts of this thread, I've argued both sides of this to a degree... tone of rosewood vs ebony board. I'd certainly agree that any difference should be minimal and would be negated by higher gain or more processed sounds. But I don't think that I could say that there would be zero difference... A Google search of rosewood vs ebony yields a lot of conversation on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I think that in various parts of this thread, I've argued both sides of this to a degree... tone of rosewood vs ebony board. I'd certainly agree that any difference should be minimal and would be negated by higher gain or more processed sounds. But I don't think that I could say that there would be zero difference... A Google search of rosewood vs ebony yields a lot of conversation on the topic. While I cannot argue tone, I think ebony "feels" faster to play than rosewood. Bends seem to glide over ebony than rosewood, sort of like maple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonefish Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 While I cannot argue tone, I think ebony "feels" faster to play than rosewood. Bends seem to glide over ebony than rosewood, sort of like maple. Interesting note DB. That was something that surprised (and confused) me last night. It seems that bends would depend more on the feet job than the board, but I did notice how smooth bends were on the H157. At first I thought it had 9's, but it was simply the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Interesting note DB. That was something that surprised (and confused) me last night. It seems that bends would depend more on the feet job than the board, but I did notice how smooth bends were on the H157. At first I thought it had 9's, but it was simply the guitar. When I lowered the action on the 150, the strings seem much easier and almost lighter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I agree with DB. the tighter grain and harder, smoother surface of an ebony make for smoother almost slippery bends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Compared to all the other factors involved, the effect a fret board wood species has on a guitar's tone is about as significant as a flea crawling up an elephant's butt with rape on it's mind. you'd be a perfect candidate for those new baked maple & synthetic fretboards coming out does any of this really matter? well it comes down to personal opinion & preference...which all vary wildly depending on the individual in my experience an ebony board guitar sounds brighter than a rosewood board gtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Naw, I don't think I'll ever own a baked maple guitar. I prefer the look and feel of ebony, rosewood, and maple...in that order. But, the sound produced by the pickups is a function of the vibrating string moving through a magnetic field above the poles. The strings are attached to to metal at one end (the frets) and metal on the other (the bridge), unless their played open. It's just hard to imagine what difference the vibrations moving through indirect materials would impart to the wave form of the strings. And allowing that this somehow does happen, then it becomes hard to imagine a thin strip of fret board is going to significantly alter the influence of the other 8 lbs of wood. But if there's some butterfly effect at work here, I'd think the affect on tone would be much less than subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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