schundog Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 A couple years ago, Kuz pulled a fast one on us by posting a couple of clips, saying they were from one of his fantastic vintage amps. Only after we all ohh-ed and ahh-ed did he tell us that he had actually recorded the clips with his Axe-Fx. His point was, you can get very realistic tone from good modelling gear. This comparison is not using the high end Axe-FX, but Fender's cheap (I have one) Mustang III VS a Fender Eric Clapton Signature tube amp. To see which amp is which, you need to go to the comments section and click on the video that gives the results. I thought it was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dell18 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Those Axe FX's are as good as you can get as far as modeling (they truly are badass) and not to be a d!#k but, I've never seen how you could possibly tell anything about tone through compressed YouTube clips or whatever through a computer. It does neither justice. Plug into those amps in a room and play through 'em. You'll know the difference I bet. Maybe not but we have 6 SS modeling amps at our practice space. Crystal clear or Deth metal high gain they get the job done fine quite often. Anything in between? Ugh. You know. Especially placed in a real live situation. I roadied for a friend not long ago and he was showing off his Line6 top of the line half stack. It really did sound good. I was questioning my tube snobbery. Got to the show and I could not hear anything out of him. It was so undefined, just a wall of noise. He was certainly loud enough but was just lost in the mix. I've got 6 SS modeling amps at my practice space. They get used and serve their purpose but when put head to head for a tone against our tube amps? They lose nearly everytime. Not always though. If that came across like I was talking trash and dissing your post, sorry, not my intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I can say playing live, again, it doesn't make a difference because most of the time, your amp is mic'd and already being compressed when the sound is pushed through the PA. I found despite the tube tone I get from my Traynor, the Tech 21 with my iPad works just as good. Think about this... When we want to sound like our favorite guitarists and/or their songs, we listen to recordings, stuff that was mic'd up and compressed when recorded. So to our ears, we like the "modeling" tones because they are closer to the sounds we hear on the radio and our opinions are skewed from it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Funny! I guessed right but out of the sounds offered and through yt filtering/compression effect I preferred the Mustang. I like Shane's way of doing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 DB is dead on. All of the fussing that people tend to do over gear, they often don't think beyond the simple guitar/amp setup. Case in point: for a heavy rock sound, in my ears you can't beat a first run 5150 into vintage voiced high watt 412 cab. That's 'in the room' of course. When you record or play most venues these days, they mic 1 of those speakers. You are no longer getting the kick of all four speakers. I've found it helps get some of that if you distance mic the cab. You might end up with a slight delay though so you gotta be careful here. Then you are, as DB pointed out, post EQ'd, compressed, etc. To be clear, I'm not saying that just any old amp will do. But just getting in the wheelhouse is generally just fine for most of what a player wants to accomplish. Going back to the 5150, as much as I think that amp is ideal for heavy rock, I wouldn't hesitate to run my Cube on the 5150 or Rectifier settings for a show or recording. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridethatbike Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I liked the first clip better, but both sound pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Funny! I guessed right but out of the sounds offered and through yt filtering/compression effect I preferred the Mustang. I like Shane's way of doing things. Me, too, on all counts, Jeff. A blind test, playing them in the room, would be fun, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Me, too, on all counts, Jeff. A blind test, playing them in the room, would be fun, now. I could do it tomorrow. I wont but I could. I do know how the results would go. I dont like either amps particularly. Sacrilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I finally watched this. Very cool comparison. I heard an EVER so SLIGHT difference. Having literally no experience with either amp, I wasn't in a position to really give a guess at which was the actual amp model and which one was a model of the amp. I will say this, I preferred the sound of the first one. I would be more than happy to use either one for the sound demonstrated, but if I just HAD to pick one that I liked better, it was sound A. Sound B sounded slightly thinner and maybe a touch more shrill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koula901 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 can anyone help me find the answer - I went to the comments section, and clicked his channel, but saw no field in which to type "results" to bring up the results. anybody got a clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koula901 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 can anyone help me find the answer - I went to the comments section, and clicked his channel, but saw no field in which to type "results" to bring up the results. anybody got a clue? never mind, I figured it out and I was wrong. I liked the Mustang sound better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I finally watched this. Very cool comparison. I heard an EVER so SLIGHT difference. Having literally no experience with either amp, I wasn't in a position to really give a guess at which was the actual amp model and which one was a model of the amp. I will say this, I preferred the sound of the first one. I would be more than happy to use either one for the sound demonstrated, but if I just HAD to pick one that I liked better, it was sound A. Sound B sounded slightly thinner and maybe a touch more shrill. can anyone help me find the answer - I went to the comments section, and clicked his channel, but saw no field in which to type "results" to bring up the results. anybody got a clue? can anyone help me find the answer - I went to the comments section, and clicked his channel, but saw no field in which to type "results" to bring up the results. anybody got a clue? never mind, I figured it out and I was wrong. I liked the Mustang sound better. I didn't even look. Haha Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koula901 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Amp A (mustang) seemed to have more note definition, and more dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Amp A (mustang) seemed to have more note definition, and more dynamic. Ah. Ok. I liked that one better. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LK155 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 To my ears, amp A is louder than amp B, which, I think automatically makes me think A has better definition. Have a feeling that if the levels were matched exactly, I would have a tough time saying which one I preferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Amp A (mustang) seemed to have more note definition, and more dynamic. When Kuz did his demo to the Axe-Fx, I thought the same thing in favor of the Axe-FX. But when it comes to dollars and cents, the real deal amps are cheaper than Axe-Fx! In this case, the Mustang IV has a tremdous value in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 When Kuz did his demo to the Axe-Fx, I thought the same thing in favor of the Axe-FX. But when it comes to dollars and cents, the real deal amps are cheaper than Axe-Fx! In this case, the Mustang IV has a tremdous value in comparison. Yes and no. The 'real deal' is cheaper when you only want one or two of those amps. Then it starts to break even depending. If you do like several different amp sounds, then something like this is really, really worth looking into. For instance, I like the JC120, AC30 and 5150 amps. The JC120 you get new for about $1200 or so and used for about $500 and up. The AC30 new I think are $800 for their cheapest model and on up from there. Used I don't know. 5150's you can only get used and the heads are about $600 with about $200 for the cab. If I got the JC120 and AC30 new, I am already at $2k which I think is where the price of the AxeFXII is when you get them on their discounted days. Maybe a couple hundred more. At that point, I would be $600 over the AxeFX and towards the powered cab. Just another $400 and not only do I have the three amps that I normally gravitate to, but I also don't have any of the problems that can be associated with tube amps such as getting a bad tube and redplating and so on. I also don't have to worry at all about tone degradation due to tube wear. AND I also have a HUGE library of amps and cabs and so on. But if you are a one or two amp guy, then it does make an AxeFx seem a little over the top. Now... there is a new thing coming out by Studio Devil in a joint venture with Atomic Amps called AmpliFire. I don't know all the details yet as it was just unveiled at NAMM and not much is out there but mostly high gain demos and one guy doing some nice jazz playing on another. It is VERY promising and will cost $599. I am looking VERY hard at this. Get that with a CLR cab and you are talking $1600. That is, if memory serves, the cost of a handwired AC30 set up. OR.... for me, about the same cost as probably what I could get the bottom rung AC30, JC120 and 5150.... used. Something like that makes a LOT of sense to me. Not only that, you can divorce the preamp model from the power amp part and just run whatever preamp you want. OR... you can turn off the power amp and run whatever preamp into your favorite power amp... or you can turn off the cab and.. well, you get it. Anyways, something to think about. Believe me though, I totally get not being able to swallow that steep up front cost over getting an amp here and there. You still spend, the difference is how it gets spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I love to record using a Digitech GSP1101 fed into Drawmer 1969 preamp, modelled sounds with tube compression, but for live, its handwired amp all the way! By the way, a Drawmer 1969 and Digitech is a pretty spendy combo, so it's no bargain, and many great amps are cheaper, but it really works great for me in the studio! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I love to record using a Digitech GSP1101 fed into Drawmer 1969 preamp, modelled sounds with tube compression, but for live, its handwired amp all the way! By the way, a Drawmer 1969 and Digitech is a pretty spendy combo, so it's no bargain, and many great amps are cheaper, but it really works great for me in the studio! You truly gotta go with what works for you and your budget. No doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhoadsScholar Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I am with Schundog as a Fan of the Mustang III (and the version 2 of the Mustang III has even more features). I used it live with a 4 12 configuration I came up with in the NAILS OF GRACE videos I posted.and the effects engine / software is simply amazing. When guitar center has a sale, these can be had for about $275 dollars..... The presets get you close but when you get into the FUSE software, there are additional tweaks. Can't say enough good things about this inexpensive amp. I have several of the real deal fender tube amps and the Mustang is amazing. From the demos, you have to admit it sounds pretty good. When you factor in the price, for 100 watts (albeit solid state watts) you can hang with a band and get decent low volume sounds as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I've had real world on the stage (big and small) experience with the Mustang III. I think it sounds amazing. The "country deluxe" setting is killer. Give it a bit o'gain and it will sing. Mic it up and it sounds decent out front. What happens, tho', like every other SS amp I've ever had on a stage with me, if it's on a loud stage at all it will fade into the background. And be nearly unheard on the stage. And unless you have the monitoring available to pipe it to everyone it will not compete in a dynamic band. I have no clue why, as it's 100w of blasting tone when it's on it's own. Add a drum and it starts to fade. Add a bass, another guitar, anything else ... and it might as well be turned off. Harsh words? Yep. But this is real time experience. And I know how to set up an amp. I know how to mic up an amp. Do it every weekend, nearly. I could see a comparison vid, like this one, getting great tones, maybe even preferable tones from it. It's a dandy amp. And I'd like one; heck I've been thinking of getting a Musty I. But I've had to use this amp on stage. And in the context of the type of music I play and have played thru one, I hope that I never have to again. All of this is, of course, my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I've had real world on the stage (big and small) experience with the Mustang III. I think it sounds amazing. The "country deluxe" setting is killer. Give it a bit o'gain and it will sing. Mic it up and it sounds decent out front. What happens, tho', like every other SS amp I've ever had on a stage with me, if it's on a loud stage at all it will fade into the background. And be nearly unheard on the stage. And unless you have the monitoring available to pipe it to everyone it will not compete in a dynamic band. I have no clue why, as it's 100w of blasting tone when it's on it's own. Add a drum and it starts to fade. Add a bass, another guitar, anything else ... and it might as well be turned off. Harsh words? Yep. But this is real time experience. And I know how to set up an amp. I know how to mic up an amp. Do it every weekend, nearly. I could see a comparison vid, like this one, getting great tones, maybe even preferable tones from it. It's a dandy amp. And I'd like one; heck I've been thinking of getting a Musty I. But I've had to use this amp on stage. And in the context of the type of music I play and have played thru one, I hope that I never have to again. All of this is, of course, my opinion. +1 this is exactly my experience with these types of amps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I've had real world on the stage (big and small) experience with the Mustang III. I think it sounds amazing. The "country deluxe" setting is killer. Give it a bit o'gain and it will sing. Mic it up and it sounds decent out front. What happens, tho', like every other SS amp I've ever had on a stage with me, if it's on a loud stage at all it will fade into the background. And be nearly unheard on the stage. And unless you have the monitoring available to pipe it to everyone it will not compete in a dynamic band. I have no clue why, as it's 100w of blasting tone when it's on it's own. Add a drum and it starts to fade. Add a bass, another guitar, anything else ... and it might as well be turned off. Harsh words? Yep. But this is real time experience. And I know how to set up an amp. I know how to mic up an amp. Do it every weekend, nearly. I could see a comparison vid, like this one, getting great tones, maybe even preferable tones from it. It's a dandy amp. And I'd like one; heck I've been thinking of getting a Musty I. But I've had to use this amp on stage. And in the context of the type of music I play and have played thru one, I hope that I never have to again. All of this is, of course, my opinion. +1 this is exactly my experience with these types of amps! I've heard of this but I've never had this issue with amps of any sort. Well, not that I couldn't EQ out of. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I've never experienced it. Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slider313 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I've had real world on the stage (big and small) experience with the Mustang III. I think it sounds amazing. The "country deluxe" setting is killer. Give it a bit o'gain and it will sing. Mic it up and it sounds decent out front. What happens, tho', like every other SS amp I've ever had on a stage with me, if it's on a loud stage at all it will fade into the background. And be nearly unheard on the stage. And unless you have the monitoring available to pipe it to everyone it will not compete in a dynamic band. I have no clue why, as it's 100w of blasting tone when it's on it's own. Add a drum and it starts to fade. Add a bass, another guitar, anything else ... and it might as well be turned off. Harsh words? Yep. But this is real time experience. And I know how to set up an amp. I know how to mic up an amp. Do it every weekend, nearly. I could see a comparison vid, like this one, getting great tones, maybe even preferable tones from it. It's a dandy amp. And I'd like one; heck I've been thinking of getting a Musty I. But I've had to use this amp on stage. And in the context of the type of music I play and have played thru one, I hope that I never have to again. All of this is, of course, my opinion. Same here. It does sound better in the video though. I also think the second amps volume is not at an equal level and could be turned up. I played a gig with a 15 watt Ampeg Mercury last Friday, volume on "2.5", and had to turn down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabilly69 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Same here. It does sound better in the video though. I also think the second amps volume is not at an equal level and could be turned up. I played a gig with a 15 watt Ampeg Mercury last Friday, volume on "2.5", and had to turn down! My 2X6V6 22 watt Top Hat Club Deluxe, and my 22watt EL84 Mesa DC2, also have to be turned down! Why can't these solid state 100 watters hang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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