schundog Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 At my nearest Guitar Center in Peoria, Illinois, Dennie is a hyperactive sales associate in his late 50s that has an earring in his left ear, always wears Converse Chuck Taylor sneakers, and is impossible not to like. I stopped in a couple of weeks ago, and spotted a 1977 Silverface Fender Vibrolux Reverb on the used floor. I asked to try it out, and gave it a go. The Normal channel didn’t work at all, and the Vibrato Channel needed some love on input one, but worked fine on input 2. It went 0 to LOUD once you got to “2.” Reverb worked just fine. It was listed at $550, but when I asked Dennie if they could knock anything off because the normal channel was inoperative, he knocked $100 off. Hoping this was an easy fix, I picked it up. I got out the door for less than $500 after tax. Sounds great, but didn’t really have Fender Cleans like I expected; almost a “brown “ sound, or like it had a fuzz pedal on it. The volume comes on VERY quickly, and, after some Deoxit sprayed into input 1 on the Vibrato channel, it’s performing as it should. John Kuziak (Kuz) called me the other day just to chat. At the end of our conversation, I asked him what he thought about the lack of cleans, and the darker tones, since I know he has a Brownface Vibrolux and other vintage Fenders. Like me, he thought that there should be some clean tones. He made some good suggestions, such as checking the power tubes, swapping V1 and V2 tubes, maybe running the amp through a different speaker cabinet to make sure that the speakers weren’t the culprit, and suggested that perhaps the reason Channel 1 wasn’t working was that the preamp tube for that channel was pulled, a way to give the Vibrato Channel a bit more gain. I assured him that I had checked and made sure that that wasn’t the case…. Except tonight, as I peered in the back of the amp again, I saw that there was a hole in the chassis at the far end, but there was no tube socket to plug it in to. SOMETHING had been there, but it’s long gone, but I never use the normal channel on these kind of amps, anyway, and I DID get $100 off for the fact, so I’m OK with that. I pulled the 12AT7 and 12AX7 tubes nearest the power tubes, and replaced them with a pair of lower gain 12AU7 tubes I had laying around. Probably not what’s recommended, but it certainly made a difference. Input 1 on Vibro Channel was still more gainy, but not as bad, and certainly controllable with the guitar volume. Treble needs to be up higher with humbuckers, and the bass response comes on very quickly as you roll the knob up. Input 2 on the Vibro channel sounded great, with nice, punchy cleans, especially with my Tele. I think somebody must have clipped the bright switch, as it doesn’t seem to make a noticeable difference when switched from one position to another. I know some guys like to do this. I plan to hang on to this for a little bit, at least, but now that I have it working a bit better than it did initially, I’m not as certain as I was at first that I’ll flip it. It’s just different enough from my other stuff to justify keeping it. We’ll see.. OR, I can sell it to Monster pawn and make a few hundred $$.. There is no real wrong answer here, but I am trying to justify my $1025 purchase of the 59 Fender Tweed Champ and Univox amp. I flipped the Univox this week for $250 cash and some nice unopened kitchen chef knifes worth about $75 (pawn shop deals ALWAYS go better if they can work some trade credit into the deal; these will end up under the tree as part of Wifey’s gifts!) Basically, I was willing to pay the $1000 Asking price for the Champ, but ASKED for the Univox in the deal, too, and got it. By selling the Univox and potentially making some money on this Vibrolux Reverb, I can feel a little better about buying the Champ. An old RCA made in USA Rectifier tubes and old Sylvania 6L6 power tubes. The original 12AT7 next to the pair of 12AU7s I put in. Mystery missing tube socket. Deoxit; It's good for what ails ya.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polo Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conneazoo Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Cool. Enjoy it while you hold on to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LK155 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Mr. Dog, Your VR is one year newer than the one I bought from Rob (Yoslate) a while back. Can't believe there's any difference in the tube layout from '76 to '77. These are great amps. I run mine with a Vox 2X12 cab rather than the 2 10's, and use a Carbon Copy Delay pedal instead of the Fender reverb. Can't beat it. Maybe you can use this picture of my VR to see if you're missing a tube.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Congrats on another 'hidden treasure' amp. Here's a bunch of info on yours... http://ampwares.com/amplifiers/751/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Nice snatch! I'm sure if you want it original, you can find someone to spruce it up and make it working as it should again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanschoyck Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Gotta love a cool old amp. There's a place near here that says they can convert old silver face fenders to black face specs without too much trouble. I'd be tempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Gotta love a cool old amp. There's a place near here that says they can convert old silver face fenders to black face specs without too much trouble. I'd be tempted. Some silverface amps sound great as is. My old '77 was converted to blackface but didn't sound better to my ears. Last year I had it returned back to original spec, and tuned up by a tech. He made it sound MUCH better than it ever did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 '77 Silverface ... Does it have the Push/Pull Master Vol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Good price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyeast Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Perfect amp for a Heritage guitar with humbucking pickups! IMO, Silverface amps shouldn't be "blackfaced." I have owned Champs, Deluxe Reverbs, Pro Reverbs, Vibroluxes, and Showman amps in both black and silver guises. BOTH are great, in their own right. I see no reason to alter amps that are becoming collectible by trying to make them blackface. Save up and get a blackface amp, if that's what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 Thanks everyone. Lyle, there is DEFINITELY a tube missing at the spot nearest the vertical edge of the amp, with no tube socket there, just a hole. Kenny, no pull pot or master volume; the controls are just like what you would find on a normal Deluxe Reverb/Pro Reverb, etc. I messed with some tube swaps, but feeling a bit lost, I took it in today to the amp guy at Monster Pawn to see if he could help me regain some of the "Fender Tone," regain some clean tones, and make it sound brighter. I also asked him to put a 3 prong plug at the end of the power cord. He's a skinny, gray ponytailed vulgarian who can't utter a sentence without the F-word, usually directed at the amp. It's 3:30 in the afternoon, and he reaked of tobacco and hard alcohol, and is sipping on a PBR as he tests the tubes. All that said, I trust him to treat this thing right. He tested the tubes, and found them to be good, but found the Bias to be very hot. He's going to pull the chassis and see if the caps need replaced, and put the 3 prong cord on. I'll be into this thing for a bit more $$, but I got such a reasonable price on it, I'm OK with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 That's an art ... and artist right there. Got to admire the rigging. ............ and the lubriderm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Good investment to have your amp wizard work his magic on this one.... awaiting the results now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Those RCA 6L6's look to be in good shape. If they have healthy readings and matched, you might have very valuable power tubes, making a good amp deal even better. Smart move taking it into your local 'vugarian' for a full tech work-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 That's an art ... and artist right there. Got to admire the rigging. ............ and the lubriderm lubriderm, a tape measure, and scotch tape; just another Saturday Night Party in Normal, IL.... Good investment to have your amp wizard work his magic on this one.... awaiting the results now.... Yeah, I knew it wasn't up to it's full potential, and I've read enough guitar magazine articles that start with "WARNING!! Tube amps contain lethal voltage, blah blah blah...." $20/Hour Labor rates plus parts seems reasonable to me, even though he said "There's several Capacitors in there, and those Mother F^^%ers are EXPENSIVE! Like, $12 a PIECE!! " Those RCA 6L6's look to be in good shape. If they have healthy readings and matched, you might have very valuable power tubes, making a good amp deal even better. Smart move taking it into your local 'vugarian' for a full tech work-up. Thanks, Tim! The RCA on the far left is the rectifier tube, but the two Sylvania power tubes actually tested out perfectly matched, and stronger than the brand new set of Tung-Sols he compared them to. Brian Cox, the tech, held the old Sylvania up to the Tung Sol, and the Sylvanias glass tubes are a good inch longer than the newer Tung Sols. "Why the F&%^$ do you suppose they did THAT?!" he wondered. The plates/filaments were the same in each brand of tube. He didn't have an answer, or think that it would matter either way, except to say that, at least I wasn't looking at a re-tube. I'll hope to know more in the next week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 If it were mine I'd take a hard look at the screen resistors for signs of overheating. They are an Achille's heel in Fender circuits. Hang on to those Sylvania 6l6's, they are right up there with RCA blackplates tonewise, fairly similar sonics, and very long lasting. Old stock GE 6l6gc's are less mid scooped, rounder sounding, very sweet. Classic Fender tones happen with RCA's in the preamp positions, particularly V2 and the phase inverter for the vib channel. Bias should be a bit on the cold side for the same reason, 55-60% max dissipation is a good range. Attention to detail from the front input to the speakers pays off here. Truly has untapped monster potential, this slightly boogered amp. Silverfaces are fair game to mod, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Thanks, Mavguy, I'll ask him about the screen resistors. He called me tonight and informed me that there was NOTHING behind the controls for the Normal channel; It had all been removed, right up to the connections to the pots. I guess that explains why I wasn't getting any sound from the Normal channel! I have to say I was a bit surprised, but not devastated by this news; I have ever only used the Vibrato channel on the Deluxe Reverb I had and the Pro Reverb I have now. He then told me that the volume pot on the Vibrato channel was the wrong value by a long shot, and that some of the caps were in need of replacing. He wanted me to come down to the shop to show me what he was talking about, but I just don't have the time right now, and told him I trusted him to do the necessary work, including a complete capacitor job using Mallory Caps, just keep me posted as to how deep I'm getting into the thing financially. He's charging me for the parts, but not marking them up any. My guess is I'll have a $200-$300 bill by the time it's all said and done, and hopefully a dynamite amp. I may be screwing up some of his explanation here, but I'll get the correct information by the time it's all said and done, hopefully later this week or early next. This is just a part time thing for Brian,as he works full time for a big insurance company here in town, so he told me it would take a little bit of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmike Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 the 1rst stage was prolly puled out on purpose, i ripped all mine out, the bright is gone prolly from a deliberate cap cut out..(those amps never had a bright switch and were hardwired bright, also, the tremelo pot wire's might have bee cut..these mods are done in order to brighten the voltage on the preamp side, by removing those unwanted circuts (tremelo and stage one)the voltage raises abit and make the best of the best (especially with a jbl k series speaker,,i'm old enough to know, i have a 63' and a 72' and i modded them both.jazz blues guys my age know all about this, cept most of'm are dead! tough road! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I have the normal channel available in my SR, one of the mods I had done was to put reverb in both channels, since I had bias trem mod installed both channels have tremolo as well. The reverb was darkened in tone for another mod. Have found vintagefenderamprepair.com to be a great resource for period correct Fender amp circuit parts. So in a jam situation short on number of amps it's no big deal to stick a harp player or another instrument in the normal channel. It sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Truly has untapped monster potential, this slightly boogered amp. Silverfaces are fair game to mod, IMHO. This! I dig your find, Brian! This should all pay off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 I called Brian at Monster Pawn today to see if I could come down and check out the progress on the amp, and he was more than happy to show me how he's coming along. He showed me 5 or six small caps he replaced in the top of the chassis, showed me that the screen resistors were fine, and showed me where he adjusted the bias. He used the schematic to explain some of the stuff he did, but all it did was remind me that I have no business even screwing the back cover off of an amp; I'm clueless! He then flipped the chassis over and unscrewed this cover. Underneath the cover, he showed me the new Mallory Caps he replaced. He had all of the original parts in a bag for me, as well. He replaced this cap, which, if I am remembering correctly, he said was associated with the bias. Finally, he showed me the pots on the normal channel, attached to, uhh, nothing....missing tube socket and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 This is the most awesome thread I've seen in a long time. hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conneazoo Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Best sweater ever!! From reading your whole post, Shundog, I'd be willing to bet that this guy would be a hoot to hang with. Who doesn't like a cold PBR? Looks like you're going to end up with an awesome amp when it's all said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Is he going to fix the Normal Channel for you? Or, at least connect it something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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