Did Schaller Do Anything Right?

[MartyGrass]

Here are my votes.

Tuners: ok

Tailpiece: too heavy

Bridge: roller bridge good for Bigsbys

Pickups: good for jazz hollowbody archtops

The engineering is very good.  Designs are not optimal for many uses.

Growers are excellent tuners.  SD 59s are a solid default.  Whatever they are using for bridges and tailpieces are a step up.

[rockabilly69]

5 minutes ago, MartyGrass said:

Here are my votes.

Tuners: ok

Tailpiece: too heavy

Bridge: roller bridge good for Bigsbys

Pickups: good for jazz hollowbody archtops

The engineering is very good.  Designs are not optimal for many uses.

Growers are excellent tuners.  SD 59s are a solid default.  Whatever they are using for bridges and tailpieces are a step up.

 

Tuner's: Every set I've ever used were GREAT! I prefer them over most tuners except for the really high end Gotohs!

Tailpiece: good for holding doors open, or holding stacks of paper down.

Bridge: never found a use for ANY roller bridge, if a Bigsby isn't working, I say go TruArc bar bridge and if needed Serpentune!

Pickups: decent at best, if they worked in a guitar I probably wouldn't yank them, just kidding, they'd be out in a second  If I wanted PAF tone: I would go with Wolfetone Legends, Throbak MXV, Tyson Precious and Grace etc. 

 

 

 

[Kuz]

3 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

 

Tuner's: Every set I've ever used were GREAT! I prefer them over most tuners except for the really high end Gotohs!

Tailpiece: good for holding doors open, or holding stacks of paper down.

Bridge: never found a use for ANY roller bridge, if a Bigsby isn't working, I say go TruArc bar bridge and if needed Serpentune!

Pickups: decent at best, if they worked in a guitar I probably wouldn't yank them, just kidding, they'd be out in a second  If I wanted PAF tone: I would go with Wolfetone Legends, Throbak MXV, Tyson Precious and Grace etc. 

 

 

 

Hard to argue with any of the above EXCEPT.... EVERY pair of Schaller tuners that I had with ivoroid buttons (which was default on 150s for a while) eventually striped.  I know many others that had the same problem.  My G tuner striped in a gig and was unrepairable. 

[ElNumero]

I have no issues with the Schaller tuning machines on my 2000 H-150!

[rockabilly69]

1 hour ago, Kuz said:

Hard to argue with any of the above EXCEPT.... EVERY pair of Schaller tuners that I had with ivoroid buttons (which was default on 150s for a while) eventually striped.  I know many others that had the same problem.  My G tuner striped in a gig and was unrepairable. 

All I ever used were the Schaller M6.

[TalismanRich]

My Heritages all have Grovers.  I don't think I ever got any with Schaller tuners.  

I tried putting Ivory keystones on my Grovers once,   they lasted a few weeks and were off.   I think they look really classy, but they strip out too easily.

[davesultra]

I’ve had a couple of Heritage guitars that had Schaller tuners. They worked just fine, but the issue was that they were chrome.

[nuke]

Schaller did all kinds of stuff right. Lots and lots and lots of very well made Schaller guitar parts out there. The "Nashville Tune-o-Matic" bridge - Schaller. Look how many say, "made in Germany". Schaller right there. They made a lot of very good tuning machines used on a variety of brands.  The Schaller GTM bridge, aka "roller bridge" works fine, just looks weird. The top-loader tailpiece is weird looking, but very functional, especially with fine-tuners, if you want fine tuners.  

Schaller humbuckers were well regarded in their day and widely used by the entire guitar industry. I've taken electrical measurements of them as well as taken them apart and honestly, they're well made and nothing bad about them. Guitar pickups are about 98.9% mythology and 1.1% actual engineering. There's only so many ways to wind two bobbins full of wire and stick a bar magnet between them. 

You might like something else, because it is different, but that doesn't mean the other is "bad". 

I also can't fault Schaller on the spare parts support and ease of ordering. I've certainly replaced many worn or butchered saddles and other miscellaneous stuff over the years and you can still order them right from Schaller in Germany.  You can even ask them questions about stuff they stopped making 30 years ago and if they have the data, they'll actually try to answer your technical questions. 

 

 

[bolero]

I've tried to like Schaller humbuckers: I deliberately left them in gtrs for a while because I thought ppl were just being finicky or parroting stuff they'd heard people say. In every case after I put duncans, lollars, throbaks, js moore, sheptones, or wolfetones in, the gtr sounded much better.

 I even sold a set of HRW's cheap to someone here, not long before they $uddenly became desireable. They didn't work for me. Sounded good for jazz & chet atkins stuff through a clean amp though. Which is probably what they were designed around.

 

 

[rockabilly69]

15 minutes ago, bolero said:

I've tried to like Schaller humbuckers: I deliberately left them in gtrs for a while because I thought ppl were just being finicky or parroting stuff they'd heard people say. In every case after I put duncans, lollars, throbaks, js moore, sheptones, or wolfetones in, the gtr sounded much better.

 

 

 

I've had the same exact experience with Schallers! I've said this before that I did many pickup swaps for people as a side hustle, and replaced more than one set because, they were just dull sounding, just like any other overly potted pickup. I also can't stand Nashville bridges of any make, or any bridge that uses an insert into the body instead of the post going right in. 

Edited April 30 by rockabilly69

[bolero]

Yeah I was going to say, a Nashville bridge is nothing to brag about! Lol

But I still use them, prefer an ABR-1 though.

[helmi]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:58 AM, bolero said:

I've tried to like Schaller humbuckers: I deliberately left them in gtrs for a while because I thought ppl were just being finicky or parroting stuff they'd heard people say. In every case after I put duncans, lollars, throbaks, js moore, sheptones, or wolfetones in, the gtr sounded much better.

Schaller humbuckers were beyond awful!

[MartyGrass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mURVofPTnY

Here's a comparison of Schallers with Seth Lovers.  I happen to like Seths, too.

 

 

 

[TalismanRich]

13 hours ago, helmi said:

Schaller humbuckers were beyond awful!

Gee,  I thought that it was my playing that made me sound beyond awful!   It was the pickups in my 157 all along!

[davesultra]

1 hour ago, TalismanRich said:

Gee,  I thought that it was my playing that made me sound beyond awful!   It was the pickups in my 157 all along!

Gee thanks Rich. I was going to swear that my ThroBaks were crap, but I guess it was me all along! 

Edited May 2 by davesultra

[111518]

On 4/28/2024 at 8:24 PM, Kuz said:

Hard to argue with any of the above EXCEPT.... EVERY pair of Schaller tuners that I had with ivoroid buttons (which was default on 150s for a while) eventually striped.  I know many others that had the same problem.  My G tuner striped in a gig and was unrepairable. 

Are you sure these weren't Sperzel tuners?  I've had this exact problem with Sperzel tuners, which Wolfe ordered on his guitars for a while, but never with Schallers. 

[nuke]

18 hours ago, helmi said:

Schaller humbuckers were beyond awful!

I'm curious, what did you find awful? 

 

[helmi]

3 hours ago, nuke said:

I'm curious, what did you find awful? 

 

The set I had in a old H-150 were horribly bright and thin sounding.

[bolero]

Has anyone pulled apart a Schaller & documented what kind of wire & magnets they used?

There has to be a quantitative reason they sound like they do.

I've heard audio & studio transformer experts talking about metallurgy & formulas being a key part of their sound: trade secrets, sometimes lost forever after businesses folded, and modern materials not having the same character. In something as basic as a gtr pickup, maybe raw materials matter more?

[rockabilly69]

5 hours ago, bolero said:

Has anyone pulled apart a Schaller & documented what kind of wire & magnets they used?

There has to be a quantitative reason they sound like they do.

I've heard audio & studio transformer experts talking about metallurgy & formulas being a key part of their sound: trade secrets, sometimes lost forever after businesses folded, and modern materials not having the same character. In something as basic as a gtr pickup, maybe raw materials matter more?

I think they do, I've swapped many magnets around and have heard some pretty big differences. I've even heard changes from pole piece slugs! Funny thing though I mostly apply this to guitars when I'm looking for a classic PAF sound. My Teye guitar has potted Lollars (very light potting), a 5 way switch, and a mood knob (which is like HPF), crazy aluminum bridge and tailpiece, and I love the sound of that guitar! I doesn't have the classic Gibson/Heritage sound though.

[nuke]

8 hours ago, bolero said:

Has anyone pulled apart a Schaller & documented what kind of wire & magnets they used?

There has to be a quantitative reason they sound like they do.

I've heard audio & studio transformer experts talking about metallurgy & formulas being a key part of their sound: trade secrets, sometimes lost forever after businesses folded, and modern materials not having the same character. In something as basic as a gtr pickup, maybe raw materials matter more?

Yes, I have. A bunch of them actually. 

Schaller made pickups from the same stuff everyone else does.  Here's one fully apart. Alnico V magnet, 42AWG copper wire, 8.5k DCR, I have the electrical and magnetic measurements as well, Inductance, Ls 4.98 henries, Q2.02, Cs 98pf, DCR 8.394k. 

Also the same pickup being characterized on my oscilloscope with an exciter coil connected to a signal generator. 

 

[skydog52]

Personally, I liked the Schallers better. You be the judge.

 

 

[Kuz]

19 hours ago, 111518 said:

Are you sure these weren't Sperzel tuners?  I've had this exact problem with Sperzel tuners, which Wolfe ordered on his guitars for a while, but never with Schallers. 

I am sorry, YES, you are correct they were Sperzel tuners, not Schallers that stripped out.  I stand corrected, thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[Kuz]

5 hours ago, rockabilly69 said:

I think they do, I've swapped many magnets around and have heard some pretty big differences. I've even heard changes from pole piece slugs! Funny thing though I mostly apply this to guitars when I'm looking for a classic PAF sound. My Teye guitar has potted Lollars (very light potting), a 5 way switch, and a mood knob (which is like HPF), crazy aluminum bridge and tailpiece, and I love the sound of that guitar! I doesn't have the classic Gibson/Heritage sound though.

I really love that Teye, REALLY, REALLY love it.  But in the past, I have never been able to get along with a guitar with 3 humbuckers.

[Kuz]

On 4/30/2024 at 4:41 AM, bolero said:

Yeah I was going to say, a Nashville bridge is nothing to brag about! Lol

But I still use them, prefer an ABR-1 though.

The aluminum Pinnacle bridge and stoptail on the 150 Custom Core is definitely a step in the right direction, but I wish (for at least the CC models) they would have used a locking Faber ABR or an original ABR-1 bridge.  The biggest problem with the Pinnacle bridge is it uses proprietary bridge studs (screwed directly into the top) that are larger in diameter than the original ABR-1.  The Faber locking ABR bridge will still work if you use the Pinnacle bridge studs, the Pinnacle thumb wheels, and the Pinnacle locking top screws.  I am not sure if a traditional (non-locking) ABR-1 will fit with the large Pinnacle studs.

Original hardware...

 

 

Locking Faber bridge (using Pinnacle bridge studs, thumb wheels, and top locking caps.  Locking Faber stoptail studs using the Pinnacle aluminum bridge.  Stoptail is flat to the body.