JeffB Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Mad a really quick demo to show what I was trying to explain. Dont know if what I was trying to say is relevant to the BB's original post so this will better explain what I was on about. A volume boost hitting an already overdriven amp doesnt actually give a volume boost it just makes more gain/noise. Its the same as hitting an already gained up stomp preamp with a volume boost. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlTRZvef1E As you can see hitting the front of the amp with a volume boost,( and the BBpre is a good volume boost), nothing happens to the volume. It just gets fizzier and a bit uncontrollable. Im using the full range on the BBpre and through a clean amp that would be a big jump in volume, but nothing happens on this high gain channel of the Egnater. I couldve used any high gain amp including a DSL40 like BB's to show this. The Boss GE-7 run through the loop only has about +4-5db on its level control as opposed the BBpre in front which should be slamming it with about +15db. I had the loop set to unity so all you are hearing is the volume increase of the Boss GE-7. Also noticed later that I had the 200hz slider bumped by +3-4db, so with the level boosted by +4db it was probably an over all 5-6db boost.... (actually dont have a clue how to work that out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_hall Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 this was an interesting read, because I've been wanting to learn how to use both vol. pot and leave the boost on all the time. would you then leave the volume around 5/6 and push up to 10 for the lead sound? Can you recommend the name/value of a good cap to get - I might want to go down this road. I've used 820pF caps (type is not that important) between the input lug and and center lug (wiper) of the volume potentiometer. This bleeds the highs to the output so they are still there when you turn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0aj15 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 For just a bump, adjustable up to 25 dB's, with no effect on tone, I've used the Seymour Duncan SFX-01 Pickup Booster for a while. Simple, works well, built like a tank. Ditto, a simple solution to a simple problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Mad a really quick demo to show what I was trying to explain. Dont know if what I was trying to say is relevant to the BB's original post so this will better explain what I was on about. A volume boost hitting an already overdriven amp doesnt actually give a volume boost it just makes more gain/noise. Its the same as hitting an already gained up stomp preamp with a volume boost. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlTRZvef1E Thanks Tully, big difference there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 That works great for an effects driven high gain amp. I know with my boss pedal, with the level turned up it acts like a volume boost, a very noticable clean volume boost. But unlike Tully, I'm not using a high gain amp. So it really it boils down to what kind of amp you are using. Overdriven High Gain Marshall type or a Low Gain Super Clean Fender amp. I'll do a recording later so you can hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsp17 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive has worked for me- both as mild overdrive pedal or clean boost depending on how you set it. but i am not at all an expert in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsanders Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Timmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Mad a really quick demo to show what I was trying to explain. Dont know if what I was trying to say is relevant to the BB's original post so this will better explain what I was on about. A volume boost hitting an already overdriven amp doesnt actually give a volume boost it just makes more gain/noise. Its the same as hitting an already gained up stomp preamp with a volume boost. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlTRZvef1E I understood what you were saying Tully. I think the best solution for his rig is running 1 channel for rythm and 1 channel for lead, second best would be a clean boost after the preamp (in the loop), and he might be able to make a passive volume work in front of the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 And great demo too Tully, Yay Rock and Roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 The DSL40 effectively has 3channel clean OD1 and OD2. All foot switchable. The down side is OD1 and 2 share gain volume and tone controls. Would be a cool mod on that amp to add a separate volume and gain control for each channel. Im thinking Big Bob would be the one to nut that one out out of most here. The 1st channel does get crunchy if you crank the channel volume and set the master to playing volume. But not saturated crunchy like the 2nd & 3rd channels. What channel do you spend most time on BB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 And great demo too Tully, Yay Rock and Roll! Thanks. I was surprised at the mic on the computer. Compressed but not all phasey like I thought it would be. I stayed in Drop D and high gain for about an hour after making the clip. Felt good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 The DSL40 effectively has 3channel clean OD1 and OD2. All foot switchable. The down side is OD1 and 2 share gain volume and tone controls. Would be a cool mod on that amp to add a separate volume and gain control for each channel. Im thinking Big Bob would be the one to nut that one out out of most here. The 1st channel does get crunchy if you crank the channel volume and set the master to playing volume. But not saturated crunchy like the 2nd & 3rd channels. What channel do you spend most time on BB? OD2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111518 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 ??? How 'bout insist that everyone diminish their volume behind solo's and vocals. At some point, volume control is a human issue ... if you keep trying to use gear to boost yourself over the roar, the roar grows unbearable for everyone concerned, not to mention the damage that you are doing to your hearing. Make dynamics the focus of your next rehearsal. Insist that when you go into a solo you are going at the volume level you are at, and the band has to come down to the level that the solo can be heard. At some point, the "effect" you need is band mates who give a damn about the overall sound of the band and everyone's hearing. Well I know this is easier said than done ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 ??? How 'bout insist that everyone diminish their volume behind solo's and vocals. At some point, volume control is a human issue ... if you keep trying to use gear to boost yourself over the roar, the roar grows unbearable for everyone concerned, not to mention the damage that you are doing to your hearing. Make dynamics the focus of your next rehearsal. Insist that when you go into a solo you are going at the volume level you are at, and the band has to come down to the level that the solo can be heard. At some point, the "effect" you need is band mates who give a damn about the overall sound of the band and everyone's hearing. Well I know this is easier said than done ... +1 on the volume/dynamics issue. To me it comes down to professionalism. If one is to get paid to entertain the audience, then all in the band need to keep their ego driven volume down so that they sound the best they can as a group. Most of the time I use a Boss 7 band Bass EQ pedal to boost my clean signal since I run my guitar volume at max most of the time. If I'm playing straight into an amp then I use the volume knobs on the git. when a solo comes my way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 OD2 Marshalls intention was for that channel to be the solo channel on the dsl40 (really need the "rock on" gif for this occassion) One thing to try, and its not the only thing, try leaving your guitar volume wide open and dial in the sound you want on OD1 for rhythm and then footswitching to OD2 for solo's. When you pull back on the guitars volume control all you are doing is cutting the saturation of the gain and then when you turn the guitar volume up you are just kinda dialing in more gain with out any real volume increase. You might be just using too much gain for some of the songs you do unless you do Sound Garden, Audio Slave or Muse Covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 ??? How 'bout insist that everyone diminish their volume behind solo's and vocals. At some point, volume control is a human issue ... if you keep trying to use gear to boost yourself over the roar, the roar grows unbearable for everyone concerned, not to mention the damage that you are doing to your hearing. Make dynamics the focus of your next rehearsal. Insist that when you go into a solo you are going at the volume level you are at, and the band has to come down to the level that the solo can be heard. At some point, the "effect" you need is band mates who give a damn about the overall sound of the band and everyone's hearing. Well I know this is easier said than done ... Marshalls intention was for that channel to be the solo channel on the dsl40 (really need the "rock on" gif for this occassion) One thing to try, and its not the only thing, try leaving your guitar volume wide open and dial in the sound you want on OD1 for rhythm and then footswitching to OD2 for solo's. When you pull back on the guitars volume control all you are doing is cutting the saturation of the gain and then when you turn the guitar volume up you are just kinda dialing in more gain with out any real volume increase. You might be just using too much gain for some of the songs you do unless you do Sound Garden, Audio Slave or Muse Covers. Both very good suggestions. Somebody should make a stomp box that let's the lead guitar player turn down the rest of the band, that would solve all volume issues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111518 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Both very good suggestions. Somebody should make a stomp box that let's the lead guitar player turn down the rest of the band, that would solve all volume issues! Cool idea. Put me on the pre-order list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 ??? How 'bout insist that everyone diminish their volume behind solo's and vocals. At some point, volume control is a human issue ... if you keep trying to use gear to boost yourself over the roar, the roar grows unbearable for everyone concerned, not to mention the damage that you are doing to your hearing. Make dynamics the focus of your next rehearsal. Insist that when you go into a solo you are going at the volume level you are at, and the band has to come down to the level that the solo can be heard. At some point, the "effect" you need is band mates who give a damn about the overall sound of the band and everyone's hearing. Well I know this is easier said than done ... Ideally that would be how it always is, and then you just rely on the SOUND GUY to notice there is a solo, and bump you up. The standard way of doing things in rock though has always seemed to be that the soloist turns up the volume for the solo. Overdriven guitar sound is not as easy to control the volume with the guitar/picking as it would be on say a wind instrument like a trumpet or saxophone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koula901 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I think the easiest and most elegant solution is that of having a 2-channel amp, clean on one, lead sound on the other, one button to push, no worries about anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalismanRich Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Has anybody invented a volume control to run down the drummer???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212Mavguy Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Many previous posts bring out things that I solved on the volume boost for soloing... The Keith Hilton volume pedal takes care of them frightfully well. Best to have bandmates with ears and the comon sense to turn down and allow the solo to build in volume. Mark Knofler's thang... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Best to have bandmates with ears and the comon sense to turn down and allow the solo to build in volume. Or, to be playing reasonably enough to begin with that a modest bump for soloing gets it done, and no one is chased out of the room.... And, program note, one doesn't have to turn anything down, to play more quietly. It's in the hands. When Terry wants to solo quietly, all I do is palm my pick and play the changes with the meat of my thumb.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Or, to be playing reasonably enough to begin with that a modest bump for soloing gets it done, and no one is chased out of the room.... And, program note, one doesn't have to turn anything down, to play more quietly. It's in the hands. When Terry wants to solo quietly, all I do is palm my pick and play the changes with the meat of my thumb.... I usually don't palm my pick, but almost all of my volume changes are made by changing my pick attack, in the old band where there were a lot of people, the volume (noise ) level frequently got out of hand. I like the three piece very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111518 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Or, to be playing reasonably enough to begin with that a modest bump for soloing gets it done, and no one is chased out of the room.... And, program note, one doesn't have to turn anything down, to play more quietly. It's in the hands. When Terry wants to solo quietly, all I do is palm my pick and play the changes with the meat of my thumb.... Yup ...that's why I wrote "diminish" volume, rather than "turn down" ... lot's of ways (as Trouble suggests as well) to limit your volume. I think I was very lucky that one of the musicians I first played out with was a very fine saxophone player ... and this in the pre-huge PA days when very few club bands had snakes and sound men; you ran sound from the stage. So, when it came time for a sax solo, the band did have to bring the volume down without losing intensity. (including the drummer.) It isn't easy, but a great skill to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Many previous posts bring out things that I solved on the volume boost for soloing... The Keith Hilton volume pedal takes care of them frightfully well. Best to have bandmates with ears and the comon sense to turn down and allow the solo to build in volume. Mark Knofler's thang... I wish it was as easy as that, but so many people just wanna rock out and blast stuff. of course also it seems that in a lot of live gigs there is a steady supply of beer infused into the band, which results in louder volumes. one of the reasons I have trouble staying in a band is because I think like a producer. I think of the "sound" of the band as something that is important. Like, "how do we sound at the bar". I HATE HATE HATE bands that are so loud that you can't hear your self think. I'd much rather have a band that sounds good and has a nice controlled volume than a balls to the wall loud band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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