the jayce Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I just respondedto another thread but it gave me a question for fellow heritage lovers. Why for the love of god will heritage not stop reinventing gibsons wheel and go on to designing and building thier rep based on thier own styled designs? I would be first in line to back them with a purchase weather it was ugly or not! Just as long as it was thier own and exclusive design only to heritage. Although cudos to them on the millie!!!!!!!! Good for you heritage, everybody wants one and with good reason, it's a heritage and not being modeled after brand x's designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfan Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Those in charge are content I believe with what they are up to. Not sure about reinventing Gibson's wheel either, some Heritage guys have been there since Gibson started building some of these designs. They may build you a prototype though based on your custom order. Will they build different body shapes on order?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Those in charge are content I believe with what they are up to. Not sure about reinventing Gibson's wheel either, some Heritage guys have been there since Gibson started building some of these designs. They may build you a prototype though based on your custom order. Will they build different body shapes on order?? Great point! Because if they do I am going to be collaborating with them on somthing. How cool would it be to have somthing built by heritage that isnt in the big three catagories. 150-157-535.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfan Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 And you could name the "new model". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 There were several models not found in a Gibson Catalog.... 140's, Prospects, Millie's, Little One, 127's, ASAT's, etc.... But who said Heritage is reinventing the wheel? The "wheel" as you call it was invented right there on Parson's Street, it just got moved to Nashville. Just so happens some of the people who helped make the original "wheel" remained to keep the Heritage of the Wheel going at the place where it all started..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 And you could name the "new model". Yep! I sure would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 As Detroit said they have developed NUMEROUS Heritage original designs in the past; ie here are just a few...140's, Prospects, Millie's, Little One, 127's, ASAT's Plus go to the Collings guitar web site. They are doing the same thing as Heritage (without the handmade, old school Gibby machines) and charging even more than Gibson does for their Custom Shop stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I just respondedto another thread but it gave me a question for fellow heritage lovers. Why for the love of god will heritage not stop reinventing gibsons wheel and go on to designing and building thier rep based on thier own styled designs? I would be first in line to back them with a purchase weather it was ugly or not! Just as long as it was thier own and exclusive design only to heritage. Although cudos to them on the millie!!!!!!!! Good for you heritage, everybody wants one and with good reason, it's a heritage and not being modeled after brand x's designs. I believe things will change down there when Vince is 100% owner, or at least more than 50%....there is still alot of "old school" influences down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 There were several models not found in a Gibson Catalog.... 140's, Prospects, Millie's, Little One, 127's, ASAT's, etc.... But who said Heritage is reinventing the wheel? The "wheel" as you call it was invented right there on Parson's Street, it just got moved to Nashville. Just so happens some of the people who helped make the original "wheel" remained to keep the Heritage of the Wheel going at the place where it all started..... Yeah I understand that, But is heritage thier own or wrestling a past tense. Gibson started at parsons and now heritage resides there, as a customer of heritage, (not gibson!) I want new heritages to choose from , and isnt the customer always right! The folklore and history is good n all but after 25 years its time for some new products to choose from. For those who are content with the 150 styles and 535 styles thats great but there alot of us out there that want somthing else besides a lp or 355 styled guitar. There's alot bigger market out there than just traditionalist's, of course traditionalist's cant phantom that concept, just aint gonna happen. Ren,marve,bill, i dont expect them to waste thier time trying new concepts, but them younger apprentices better start throwin out some ideas to them or who ever and start nudging the company toward some changes in styles. If i worked there i would drivem nuts till i got them to at least try a few. This no change in nothing isnt gonna fly in the future with thier competitor. Why make it easy for you know who. I believe things will change down there when Vince is 100% owner, or at least more than 50%....there is still alot of "old school" influences down there. I sure hope so, I would say you hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I just respondedto another thread but it gave me a question for fellow heritage lovers. Why for the love of god will heritage not stop reinventing gibsons wheel and go on to designing and building thier rep based on thier own styled designs? I would be first in line to back them with a purchase weather it was ugly or not! Just as long as it was thier own and exclusive design only to heritage. Although cudos to them on the millie!!!!!!!! Good for you heritage, everybody wants one and with good reason, it's a heritage and not being modeled after brand x's designs. Here is a small list of extremely successful companies that have taken the original design and put their spin on it... Suhr Anderson Tyler Kirn Collings PRS (now is moving even more toward the classic Strat & LP designs) Terry McInturff is really one of a handful of guys making his own designs. PRS started out with his own designs People want the classics. Companies with original designs are starving. Honestly, who can you name a popular guitarist playing a guitar with a totally unique, one off design???? I think it would be a monumental failure for Heritage to only produce "their own designs". Look at the acoustic guitar. Dreadnought, OM, Cutaway design..... that is about it, and every company produces their version (Breedlove made some unique designs, but I would not call them successful financially) I believe things will change down there when Vince is 100% owner, or at least more than 50%....there is still alot of "old school" influences down there. If, or when, that day comes..... I will have a tear in my eye and have to look for a new favorite company. Heritage builds the best classic designs, which is a direct link to their past linage and there is no need to deviate from that path, IMHO. And again, they have added their own designs and features.... ie VIP switching system, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Here is a small list of extremely successful companies that have taken the original design and put their spin on it... Suhr Anderson Tyler Kirn Collings PRS (now is moving even more toward the classic Strat & LP designs) Terry McInturff is really one of a handful of guys making his own designs. PRS started out with his own designs People want the classics. Companies with original designs are starving. Honestly, who can you name that is a popular guitarist playing a guitar with a totally unique, one off design???? I think it would be a monumental failure for Heritage to only produce "their own designs". Look at the acoustic guitar. Deadnought, OM, Cutaway design..... that is about it, and every company produces their version (Breedlove made some unique designs, but I would not call them successful financially) Great point kuz, your right. But im not saying for heritage to stop makin the bread and butter guitars they have so masterfully mastered. My main goal here is to wake them up down there and dust off some scraps laying around and make some new models/designs prototypes or what ever you want to call them and give thier customers somthing to get excited about and buy. !!!!!! Let me ask everyone one a question?????? if you knew heritage announced they where releasing 10 new prototypes to choose from even if only special order but 10 new models totally new and exclusive to the heritage guitar company on a certain date of the following month. How would you honestly feel? I'll start by saying first id sh#t myself just at the news of it. Then im gonna start saving my money to buy at least 1 and spread the news to every other guitarist I know and get them all shook up to, meanwhile just about dying from the anticipation . Now how would you respond to the great news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalismanRich Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 There are some unique guitars out there.... Uli John Roths Skyguitar The Steinberger (lots of artists used those) The only problem for me is that I wouldn't necessarily want to buy either one... just not my style. Call me a traditionalist. That's not to say they aren't good instruments, and very well thought out. Maybe there's a reason why certain instruments have lasted. Functionally, LP, 335, Strat and Tele styles are very good instruments with distinctive sounds. Why do organists continue to buy Hammond B3s and their clones? Because they like the sound! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 There are some unique guitars out there.... Uli John Roths Skyguitar The Steinberger (lots of artists used those) The only problem for me is that I wouldn't necessarily want to buy either one... just not my style. Call me a traditionalist. That's not to say they aren't good instruments, and very well thought out. Maybe there's a reason why certain instruments have lasted. Functionally, LP, 335, Strat and Tele styles are very good instruments with distinctive sounds. Why do organists continue to buy Hammond B3s and their clones? Because they like the sound! I'd buy that white one in a heart beat if it had been a heritage. 1out of 2 customers aint bad. Theres traditionalist's and theres also alot out there like me. I like both tradition and newness. Hopefully heritage will realize that and expand to the otherside of the customer base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalismanRich Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Jayce, if you want one of the Uli Skys, you better get in line fast. Only 25 will be made by Dean. Wanna bet that they are already sold? http://www.deanguitars.com/ulijonroth.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_hall Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 There are at least two parts to design and we often tend to focus on one part, ignoring the other. We look at the package you would hold in your hands and forget what it takes to get to that package. Heritage is very good at the implementation side of the current designs, but from where did the artwork come? It took an artist based in reality, not just an artist. When the artwork was created, the final product was executed with the tools of the day. The result is mainly square cuts and limited curves. To get to more sweeping designs with complex shapes and surfaces, more material has to be consumed as waste in a resource limited world. This says nothing of the tooling and artistic creativity necessary to get away from the squareness of the past and move to the curvatures of the future. First you needs artists that can think in terms of transition, making incremental changes in the use of the present tooling to move toward slick complex curves. CNC can get you there, but the waste is still there and dedicated graphic designers are not necessarily interested in cost of the implemented design. It's the art that drives them and flows in their soul. So I challenge you to come up with a design of complex curvature that can be implemented with minimal waste using an incremental set of new tooling. Think in terms of the art, think in terms of materials, think in terms of the required functionality, and draw a design that can be implemented. What is needed and what is on hand? Suggest a creative input to solve the puzzle we agree exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I'd be content if the boys down at Parsons Street continued to improve on and add more variations of their current model line up. For example, why not come up with a slightly larger or thicker bodied Millie/155? Talk about unique! Or why not bring back the Kahuna, or at least something similar as a non-artist signature model? I've been a fan of that body design for years and wondered why Heritage discontinued it. Collings has a similar design, but Heritage came up with it first. With those two off-the-top-of-my-head guitar ideas, Heritage could start building something truly unique for the marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 There are some unique guitars out there.... Uli John Roths Skyguitar The Steinberger (lots of artists used those) The only problem for me is that I wouldn't necessarily want to buy either one... just not my style. Call me a traditionalist. That's not to say they aren't good instruments, and very well thought out. Maybe there's a reason why certain instruments have lasted. Functionally, LP, 335, Strat and Tele styles are very good instruments with distinctive sounds. Why do organists continue to buy Hammond B3s and their clones? Because they like the sound! Yuk! Maybe different, but different for it's own sake. I can't think these designs are that practical. How would either rest on a leg when playing while seated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalismanRich Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Yuk! Maybe different, but different for it's own sake. I can't think these designs are that practical. How would either rest on a leg when playing while seated? Granted they might not be practical for sitting on a chair and playing, but I doubt that's what they were designed for. I would say that a Flying V isn't the best for sitting down with the guitar resting on a leg. .. or any of the pointy guitars that came out in the 80s. They're designed for standing and playing on a stage. Can you imagine Prince sitting around on his couch playing this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushover Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 In the past I have been critical of Heritage for not having more of their own models to showcase. I do feel that a certain segment of the population view them only as Gibson copies, and being "in the know" a comparison like that just bothers me at so many levels. That being said, the enlightened few are out there. I was out in public with my 157 (which is pretty rare for me) and a young man came up to peer at it and ask what it was. Simultaneously another guy came up to admire the instrument and answered the question for me by saying: "It's just like a Gibson Les Paul Custom.. Only Better" Made me feel both happy, and "all superior" (since I'm smart enough to have one) at the same time. I talked the guy for a while, and unfortunately he doesn't play any more because of Parkinsons, but he said that 10 years ago he'd come across Heritage while trying to replace a valuable old 335 that had been stolen from him. He got a 555 that was so much better than any of the then current Gibson's he could have bought and at a fraction of their cost. I felt really sad that he can't play any more. From talking to him, it was clear that the passion is still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 They are musical instruments, and their design is based, at least in part, on an understanding of laws of physics and ergonomics which can be traced back centuries. We live in an age wherein innovation is held at a premium, for a variety of reasons, one of which is not necessarily that it improves a time-tested design. Innovation frequently serves only itself. I don't want to play an Edsel or a Pacer or a Princess phone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I just respondedto another thread but it gave me a question for fellow heritage lovers. Why for the love of god will heritage not stop reinventing gibsons wheel and go on to designing and building thier rep based on thier own styled designs? I would be first in line to back them with a purchase weather it was ugly or not! Just as long as it was thier own and exclusive design only to heritage. Although cudos to them on the millie!!!!!!!! Good for you heritage, everybody wants one and with good reason, it's a heritage and not being modeled after brand x's designs. Why would they make anything else? What they make is what they have always made, and they do it "perfectly". Why change now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhoadsScholar Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I visited Heritage back in 2008 for the first time. Took the tour and got to meet with Marv. I shared with him how much I liked the 170 design (original by Heritage). He proceeded to share with me he had been working on a prototype of the 2nd Generation 170 and took me though the tour and showed me the prototypes. I asked him if anyone had dibs on first one. He called Vince and next thing you know it was mine. He called me along the way of its build and it was ready a little early as they wanted to get it into production. They have a good mix of original designs, and those based on Gibson classics. I kinda like that. I have a les paul and a 335 but I also have a 150 and soon a 555. I'm not sure what the numbers look like, but I think its nice to get an original as well as something based on a classic design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Great point kuz, your right. But im not saying for heritage to stop makin the bread and butter guitars they have so masterfully mastered. My main goal here is to wake them up down there and dust off some scraps laying around and make some new models/designs prototypes or what ever you want to call them and give thier customers somthing to get excited about and buy. !!!!!! Let me ask everyone one a question?????? if you knew heritage announced they where releasing 10 new prototypes to choose from even if only special order but 10 new models totally new and exclusive to the heritage guitar company on a certain date of the following month. How would you honestly feel? I'll start by saying first id sh#t myself just at the news of it. Then im gonna start saving my money to buy at least 1 and spread the news to every other guitarist I know and get them all shook up to, meanwhile just about dying from the anticipation . Now how would you respond to the great news? I have generally bought new Heritages. Most people here on HOC have purchased USED Heritages (seems the ratio is 80% used, 20% new purchases), so I doubt there would be much excitement or financial benefit for Heritage. I am not try to be an idiot or shoot down your idea just because. It's just that if you look at all the different models Heritage has produced in over 25 years, there is a reason why the other models are no longer produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunote Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I buy Heritages because I like them. If they came up with a new offering that I really liked, I might buy it because I thought it was cool, or smart, or because of the tones, or workmanship...but not because it was the "next new thing". I don't follow fads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Who here remembers "The Can Opener...? I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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