Comparing Gibson Historic Reissue to Current H150!

[schundog]

Interesting, thanks! I like that you went into detail about what you liked and disliked about both; you didn't just say "This one's better.." Do you think that the new 150 would sound a lot closer to your Gibson if they had the same pickups, or do you think there are too many other factors at work? Thanks again. I dig the picture of the "trio," and nice amps, too, by the way!

[yoslate]

Terrific thread! Seemed about as objective as a player could be (heh...). Lots of information and detail from the p.o.v. of a player, someone who relies on his pieces to make a living, but who has an affinity for his instruments, as well. And the pictures are gorgeous. Got a kick out of all the toggles being on the bridge p'up, in the trio picture. I'd have done the same thing...but in the neck position.... Always dig your posts, r.b.

[ezra1]

Hey Rockabilly69....thanks for the post.Very informative.

I too would wonder about a pickup change.

My question is about the shoulders.

The photo shows the heel and on the Gibson it is very much a "c" shape. The Heritage is not uniform ..would that reflect the shape of the back of the neck from the nut to where it joins the body?

[yoslate]

 

My question is about the shoulders.

The photo shows the heel and on the Gibson it is very much a "c" shape. The Heritage is not uniform ..would that reflect the shape of the back of the neck from the nut to where it joins the body?

 

I think the Heritage necks, particularly those rolled by Marv, have a sort of compound radius, on the back of the neck. It doesn't seem the same down the neck, but the shoulder becomes slightly more pronounced, as you approach the twelfth fret.

[ezra1]

also in that heel photo of the new H-150,what is that finish color on the back?I feel like the wood is mahogany but that finish tint makes it kinda look like koa.

[mark555]

Buying the guitars you like - Wonderful!

[rockabilly69]

I think the Heritage necks, particularly those rolled by Marv, have a sort of compound radius, on the back of the neck. It doesn't seem the same down the neck, but the shoulder becomes slightly more pronounced, as you approach the twelfth fret.

This is exactly how I would describe the Heritage necks, as both of mine exhibit this quality, but the new neck has more shoulder all the way down the neck, and the older H150 is more

like a typical med C.

[rockabilly69]

also in that heel photo of the new H-150,what is that finish color on the back?I feel like the wood is mahogany but that finish tint makes it kinda look like koa.t

It's just a really nice light back stain! That was one reason I was attracted to it. I don't really like the red backs that much, and never have.

And my older Heritages had an opaque quality to the back stain that I also didn't like. This new one looks great! Look how much more

translucent the newer stain is, also notice the same assymetrical shape on the older H150 heel.

 

 

[rockabilly69]

Buying the guitars you like - Wonderful!

Exactly! Especially when your job consists of holding a guitar in your hands every day! Take a look at my schedule for this month and you tell

me if I should suffer bad guitars! All I ever do is drive, setup, play, breakdown, drive, repeat:) On my days off, when not hanging with my girlfriend,

or my son's family, I write and record!

 

http://www.danweldon.com/ (click on calender)

[rockabilly69]

Interesting, thanks! I like that you went into detail about what you liked and disliked about both; you didn't just say "This one's better.." Do you think that the new 150 would sound a lot closer to your Gibson if they had the same pickups, or do you think there are too many other factors at work? Thanks again. I dig the picture of the "trio," and nice amps, too, by the way!

Well, we will most likely find out the answer to that question when I start modding this guitar:) But, to be honest, I think the primary tone is in the wood, and although many people

would disagree with this, I think alot of the tone comes from the wood in the neck and the size of the neck. I used to switch necks around on my Telecasters and the tone would

follow the neck!!! I've decided that I love the way this guitar looks and it will be fun to see what it is capable of of, so I want to personalize it with my favorite parts! If it doesn't

turn out to be what I like tonewise I will sell it. Their are plenty of hard rockers that would drool with this guitar in their hands!!!

[Bonefish]

Dan - It's fun to see your posts on here. I talked with you in May of last year about my Heritage H150 Goldtop (I believe you found my craigslist ad). It found a great home and I've since bought an H157 which has turned out to be a ton of fun. Anyhow, congratulations on your buy and keep us posted on the mods. I'm about to head that route with the H157 and am looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

[chico]

Exactly! Especially when your job consists of holding a guitar in your hands every day! Take a look at my schedule for this month and you tell

me if I should suffer bad guitars! All I ever do is drive, setup, play, breakdown, drive, repeat:) On my days off, when not hanging with my girlfriend,

or my son's family, I write and record!

 

http://www.danweldon.com/ (click on calender)

 

 

+1

[yoslate]

But, to be honest, I think the primary tone is in the wood, and although many people would disagree with this, I think alot of the tone comes from the wood in the neck and the size of the neck.

 

Find myself concurring more and more. I was asked recently to write a review of a guitar belonging to a friend of mine, marvelous player, which was built by a gifted local luthier. The new owner is very knowledgeable, and the luthier is gifted with a sixth sense about wood. I've been to the shop and dug through his wood stash with him. He sources great lumber, including some exotic (to me, anyway) tonewoods. And he does some things in his construction which seem to yield great sounding guitars. An instrument's tone really is an amalgamation of things, as numerous threads here have concluded, but all of those variables are, for better or worse, anchored in the wood.

[rockabilly69]

Dan - It's fun to see your posts on here. I talked with you in May of last year about my Heritage H150 Goldtop (I believe you found my craigslist ad). It found a great home and I've since bought an H157 which has turned out to be a ton of fun. Anyhow, congratulations on your buy and keep us posted on the mods. I'm about to head that route with the H157 and am looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

I still want a Goldtop, but I think I will Heritage build me a custom P90 model! I will keep you posted on the mods as I do them.

[rockabilly69]

Find myself concurring more and more. I was asked recently to write a review of a guitar belonging to a friend of mine, marvelous player, which was built by a gifted local luthier. The new owner is very knowledgeable, and the luthier is gifted with a sixth sense about wood. I've been to the shop and dug through his wood stash with him. He sources great lumber, including some exotic (to me, anyway) tonewoods. And he does some things in his construction which seem to yield great sounding guitars. An instrument's tone really is an amalgamation of things, as numerous threads here have concluded, but all of those variables are, for better or worse, anchored in the wood.

Good to see everyone doesn't think I'm crazy. And as for the wood being in the tone, I think once you know what the wood wants to do you, can tailor the sound quite a bit with the right hardware and electronics, especially the pickups. When I bought the new H150 I listened to the clips from Wofle on a good system (my home studio). The guitar was played through a Swart amplifier and a Fuchs pedal and I think that chain colored what I heard as my guitar doesn't sound like the clip, not bad, but definately different. It sounds considerably better on one of my amps (TopHat) than it does on another (custom 18 watt Marshall variant), but neither one of those amps is my main gigger, so I want to dial it to my Deluxe Reverb or my Boogie DC2.

[yoslate]

The guitar was played through a Swart amplifier and a Fuchs pedal and I think that chain colored what I heard as my guitar doesn't sound like the clip, not bad, but definately different.

Which brings up another question: Why do people demo'ing a particular guitar or amp invariably put a chain of pedals between the two? I've done one amp demo, and it never occurred to me to do anything other than guitar+cord+amp=tone(s). How can you tell anything about either with the dominant piece in the chain being the dimed Squashbuckler-Rotovibe-Ballzout-Phallangeez-DumbleTrumble-HowlerMonkee?

[Gitfiddler]

 

Which brings up another question: Why do people demo'ing a particular guitar or amp invariably put a chain of pedals between the two? I've done one amp demo, and it never occurred to me to do anything other than guitar+cord+amp=tone(s). How can you tell anything about either with the dominant piece in the chain being the dimed Squashbuckler-Rotovibe-Ballzout-Phallangeez-DumbleTrumble-HowlerMonkee?

 

 

 

EXCELLENT POINT!!!!

[TalismanRich]

Which brings up another question: Why do people demo'ing a particular guitar or amp invariably put a chain of pedals between the two? I've done one amp demo, and it never occurred to me to do anything other than guitar+cord+amp=tone(s). How can you tell anything about either with the dominant piece in the chain being the dimed Squashbuckler-Rotovibe-Ballzout-Phallangeez-DumbleTrumble-HowlerMonkee?

 

The man speaks the truth!

[Hfan]

I agree I like the new Gibson pots, but not the fake bees:) When I was modding/blueprinting my Zemaitis reissue guitar I soldered in two leads with alligator clips and tried every cap I could find to get the slide guitar woman tone I was looking for and the fake bees were some of the least favorite caps. I wound up going with Jensen PIOs from RS, which clearly were the best for MY tone. The orange drops that Heritage uses scored well in my test too.

What I like about the RS pots is the smoother feel with the high amount of grease they use in the pot, plus I like that they are matched well in resistance value. I am really interested in trying out the pots that are in the new Heritage.

rockabilly, I find this interesting, So caps of the same value really do have different tonal characteristics when placed in the same circuit? I've always wondered and have been kind of a a doubting Thomas on this. Is the difference between different caps having the same capacitance rating really evident?

[rockabilly69]

rockabilly, I find this interesting, So caps of the same value really do have different tonal characteristics when placed in the same circuit? I've always wondered and have been kind of a a doubting Thomas on this. Is the difference between different caps having the same capacitance rating really evident?

Yes they do make a difference, but not when tone controls are on 10. On the lower settings though, you can hear the difference between same value cap. I like to solder some small alligator clips to some short leads attached to the pots. Then I just clip in caps til I find what I like. So far my favorites are been Jensen PIO's that I got from RS Guitarworks. I've done this to every player guitar I own.

[TalismanRich]

Dan, have you been able to measure the specific caps? It would be good to know if it was due to the construction or to the +/- 10% variance.

[Hfan]

Yes they do make a difference, but not when tone controls are on 10. On the lower settings though, you can hear the difference between same value cap. I like to solder some small alligator clips to some short leads attached to the pots. Then I just clip in caps til I find what I like. So far my favorites are been Jensen PIO's that I got from RS Guitarworks. I've done this to every player guitar I own.

Thanks Rockabilly. So with the tone control at 10 the cap is out of the circuit (especially with a no load cap I suppose like the fenders delta tones with the indent).

 

Thanks for doing the test, saves me the effort, I have a Strat I was going to try a .047 in (currently has a .022) to lose a little shrillness in the bridge pup.

[rockabilly69]

Let me know how the .047 cap works:) In my Zemaitis guitar I used an .015 cap which is used for all of the tone pots (one cap),

and I loved the way it got the woman tone for slide! Here's a pic of how it's wired, but I did change to a Jensen tone cap right

after this pic.

 

[bolero]

cool beans!!

[bluesgolfer]

After today's comparison I think is very accurate, but this is what I came up with.

 

The Historic 60 reissue and the H150 were so different in tone they could have been different models. The H150 was much bigger sounding in the mids, but I didn't like the top end as much it was a little sterile, also the lows were better defined on the historic. I would say I prefer the historic for my type of tone, which slightly more resonant and sweet, whereas the H150 thumped the speakers in my amps! For the person who likes to feeI the thump of a closed back cab the H150 would deliver in spades. Also pinch harmonics seemed to jump out of the Pearly Gates. But like I said earlier for my tone (Mick Tayor and Jimmy Page inspired styles), I prefer the Historic especially in the light crunch tones. To test the tones I used my 64 Deluxe Reverb, 62 Alamo Fury, and a 2009 TopHat Club Deluxe

 

I brought the guitars over to Fed Ex, and weighed both the Historic 8lbs 14oz, the H150 9lbs 6oz. The weight could have contributed alot to the difference in tone.

 

When it came to sustain it really came down to what part of the fingerboard you were playing, but I found less dead spots on the Heritage.

 

Fret work - even up, and neither work particularly great, both would benefit from some further polishing. The fretwork on my Japanese Zemaitis is better hands down!

 

In the finish department, I think it's a tie, they are both excellent. The Heritage seems to have the all of the quality of my Historic and at a much lower price.

 

Potentiometers on both guitars felt the same, and I didn't find much difference in the taper. I also didn't find much difference in the behavior of the capacitors in tonal changes.

 

I like the shape of the Gibson neck better as the 60 reissue is a typical C shape, wheras the H150 also a C, has a slighty assymetrical shape (see pics) towards the heel. I noticed this shape also

on my other H150. The new H150 has more of a shoulder which I don't like. I found I was playing better on my historic. My older H150 doesn't have that shoulder!

 

Gibson

 

Heritage

 

After playing each for hours, I think I prefer the historic, but with some tweaking I think I could get the heritage to where I like it. After the comparison,

I pickup up my older H150 and I liked it as much as the historic as I love the Zhangbucker pure handwound pickups in that one!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like the asymmetrical neck carve is backwards. USACG and Warmoth makes them ticker under the low E side and thinner under the high E side.