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throbak PAF's get two thumbs up!!!

bolero

By bolero
in Heritage Guitars

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VJonathan Explorer

VJonathan

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The Throbak is a great pickup.  It has a nice vintage mid-range tone.  A few months back Jay, Graham and I conducted a tone test (with four H150s)  each respectively outfitted with a PAF Throbak, SD Seth Lover, Lollar Imperial and the SD 59. The amp of choice was a 20watt 1x12 SWART.  The general consensus in order of tone preference was: 1) SD Seth Lover, 2) Lollar Imperial 3) PAF Throbak and 4) SD 59 .  IMHO the SD 59 should not even be in this category because of it's Alnico 5 magnet.      I guess it's all a matter of personal taste. :) 

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Gitfiddler Mentor

Gitfiddler

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The Throbak is a great pickup.  It has a nice vintage mid-range tone.  A few months back Jay, Graham and I conducted a tone test (with four H150s)  each respectively outfitted with a PAF Throbak, SD Seth Lover, Lollar Imperial and the SD 59. The amp of choice was a 20watt 1x12 SWART.  The general consensus in order of tone preference was: 1) SD Seth Lover, 2) Lollar Imperial 3) PAF Throbak and 4) SD 59 .  IMHO the SD 59 should not even be in this category because of it's Alnico 5 magnet.      I guess it's all a matter of personal taste. :) 

 

Were these tested as 'Clean' or 'Overdriven'?

 

Good tone is so subjective...

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big bob Mentor

big bob

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The Throbak is a great pickup.  It has a nice vintage mid-range tone.  A few months back Jay, Graham and I conducted a tone test (with four H150s)  each respectively outfitted with a PAF Throbak, SD Seth Lover, Lollar Imperial and the SD 59. The amp of choice was a 20watt 1x12 SWART.  The general consensus in order of tone preference was: 1) SD Seth Lover, 2) Lollar Imperial 3) PAF Throbak and 4) SD 59 .  IMHO the SD 59 should not even be in this category because of it's Alnico 5 magnet.      I guess it's all a matter of personal taste. :) 

 

+1 thanks for the imput... love my seth's,, going to try a brian gunsher soon, will post tone report.

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Kuz Experienced

Kuz

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Where I have no dog in this fight, I feel it is only fair to mention I don't think this is a fair comparison.

 

The difference from guitar to guitar is probably as great as it is from Pup to Pup.

 

Only unless the same guitar was used for all Pups would the tone test hold up for me.

 

If you "You Tube" search David Grissom he talks about when he was designing his Pups for his signature PRS DGT guitar, that he had a sliding system where he could quickly just slide a set of pups in and out (in less than 15 secs). One guitar, four sets of pups, that's how to do it.

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VJonathan Explorer

VJonathan

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Well, if you want to get real picky about it, that's the way to do it.  However, for general practicality,  the instruments we used were very similar...wood, weight, shape etc, etc.  The tone we were discerning were from the output of the pups, and they each had their own personality. All pups do.  We must remember the holy grail PAF also has it own tonal characteristics.  After all , aren't we all chasing "That Tone."?

 

I failed to mention earlier in this thread that while the general consensus was for the SD Seth Lover, we also thought the Seth Neck PUP was a bit muddy.  The Lollar Imperial and Throback had a cleaner bottom end.  That said, either one of those two neck pups coupled with the Seth in the Bridge position would be a great combination. :)

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slider313 Community Regular

slider313

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.

 

The difference from guitar to guitar is probably as great as it is from Pup to Pup.

Only unless the same guitar was used for all Pups would the tone test hold up for me.

 

Exactly. I have an R8 that's big,loud and bright with a distinct woody tone. It retains it's character with different pickups. The pickups do allow certain frequencys to be enhanced and tones to be either brittle or smoother, but she's still loud and woody.

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fxdx99 Experienced

fxdx99

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the instruments we used were very similar...wood, weight, shape etc, etc.   The tone we were discerning were from the output of the pups,

 

Just another opinion here VJ  - I've thought that too, but have been shown that while it's intuitive that very similar guitars will sound the same - they actually don't.  So I've changed my mind on being able to select pickups when they're on different guitars.  Even similar wood in the necks and body have their own acoustic properties and these dominate the tone of the guitar much more than pickups do.  Pickups DO of course affect the tone, and the only way to get a pickup's impact is on the same guitar.  Also think it's true that one might find a fav pickup is better on one guitar and a different pickup set is better on another guitar much lilke you found the neck/bridge to have characteristics that favor a guitar's particular frequency response.

 

I've guitars w/stock Gibby pickups, Schallers, SD59s, Bareknuckles, Seth Lovers, and Throbaks.  I'm a big fan of Seth Lovers and like you think they're much better than 59s.  In fact, prior to trying out the Bareknuckles and Throbaks, I'd decided that I'd found the pickup I'd use in Seth Lovers.  But as much as I like Seth Lovers, the 'knuckles and throbaks are both really really open/full/rich sounding.  Similar to Seth's, but a bit tighter bass, but crisper high end.  I'd give the nod to throbaks at this point, but would also comment that I'm using them in a semi-hollow rather than LP style guitar and that can make a difference as well.  Also, I'm a blues/jazz player and value clarity and note/frequency separation over ability to push the amp.

 

          ... just one more opinion.

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GuitArtMan Rising Star

GuitArtMan

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Well, if you want to get real picky about it, that's the way to do it.  However, for general practicality,  the instruments we used were very similar...wood, weight, shape etc, etc.   The tone we were discerning were from the output of the pups, and they each had their own personality. All pups do.  We must remember the holy grail PAF also has it own tonal characteristics.  After all , aren't we all chasing "That Tone."?

 

I failed to mention earlier in this thread that while the general consensus was for the SD Seth Lover, we also thought the Seth Neck PUP was a bit muddy.  The Lollar Imperial and Throback had a cleaner bottom end.  That said, either one of those two neck pups coupled with the Seth in the Bridge position would be a great combination. :)

If the Seth Lover neck pickup was muddy, you had it adjusted wrong. 

 

That's the other problem when comparing pickups:  how do you (do you?) adjust the pickups?  Do you go by some "factory standard" method or do you try and find the individual pickups sweet spot?  Chris Kinman used to have a picture on his website pointing to the pickups height adjustment screws and labled "tone".  I couldn't agree more.  You can affect a pickups tone so much by just raising or lowering the pickup and/or tilting it.  How much time do people spend learning to do that?  There is no right or wrong, it what best suits you and your needs.

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Spectrum13 Community Regular

Spectrum13

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Let us not forget the caps and pots! My Seths sound very different on a 150 than a 155. As to the neck being a little muddy... recommended V pots and Tpots are 500 and Heritage uses V500 and T250. I changed out to the T500s and it opened up the range and tightened up the bass. There are plenty of factors to consider in pup choices and it all changes with different hands and amps. It's only fair when it's apples and apples and there would still be production variations.

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jamison162 Contributor

jamison162

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...outfitted with a PAF Throbak, SD Seth Lover, Lollar Imperial and the SD 59. IMHO the SD 59 should not even be in this category because of it's Alnico 5 magnet.   

 

What's a PAF Throbak anyway?  Sounds like a wannabe.  Or do you mean Throbak PAF? PAF is the pickup, Throbak the brand.

 

Which Throbak anyway, you can get A2's or A5's?  Imperials are A5's, SD are A5's, seems like the Seth Lover was the odd man out.

 

Seth's are good but I much prefered the WCR Darkburst in my H-150.  I would try the Throbak's but not at that $$, plus I really don't see the point when I own a set of Sheptones. How much better can you get realistically.

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Kuz Experienced

Kuz

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What's a PAF Throbak anyway?  Sounds like a wannabe.  Or do you mean Throbak PAF? PAF is the pickup, Throbak the brand.

 

Which Throbak anyway, you can get A2's or A5's?  Imperials are A5's, SD are A5's, seems like the Seth Lover was the odd man out.

 

Seth's are good but I much prefered the WCR Darkburst in my H-150.  I would try the Throbak's but not at that $$, plus I really don't see the point when I own a set of Sheptones. How much better can you get realistically.

 

There is a Heritage tie to Thobak pups. I'll let someone else (or Thobak, himself) tell the story more accurately.

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ThroBak Newbie

ThroBak

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What's a PAF Throbak anyway?  Sounds like a wannabe.  Or do you mean Throbak PAF? PAF is the pickup, Throbak the brand.

 

Which Throbak anyway, you can get A2's or A5's?  Imperials are A5's, SD are A5's, seems like the Seth Lover was the odd man out.

 

Seth's are good but I much prefered the WCR Darkburst in my H-150.  I would try the Throbak's but not at that $$, plus I really don't see the point when I own a set of Sheptones.  How much better can you get realistically.

 

There are lots of specifics on my site but here is the Heritage connection to ThroBak pickups. All PAF's were machine wound. The machines used to wind them were mentioned in general terms in an interview with Seth Lover. One of these machines is well documented to be the Leesona 102 coil winder. I own one of these coil winders as does Seymour Duncan. I believe we are the only two pickup makers to wind with this machine. Another machine was mentioned by Seth Lover that wound 4 bobbins (the Leesona 102 only winds three at any one time). This specifics about this 4 bobbin machine machine and where it was were a mystery until recently. 3 years ago I placed a custom order with Heritage. I had been in contact with Heritage and had given them some sample pickups over the years. When it came time to pick up my guitar from the factory about a year ago I asked Bill Paige if they had any old coil winders. Bill knew I made pickups and graciously showed me the mystery 4 bobbin winder that was made long ago by a pattern maker at Gibson to wind PAF coils. This machine cannot wind a complete PAF as it only winds slug coils. PAF's with these slug coils would have been paired with a screw coil made on the Leesona 102. Heritage and I worked out an agreement for me to purchase this machine. Part of the deal gives Heritage exclusive as a guitar manufacturer to offer these pickups in their guitars if they so desire. I think both of us are pleased with the final agreement. Vince told me that the old winder just barely missed being thrown in the dumpster. It took a lot of work to clean it up and rewire it but I'm very happy to have it back to making PAF coils. The old slug winder which I call the Slug 101 makes some very unique sounding coils due to it's one of a kind hand made traverse mechanism. The pickups on my site with the SLE prefix have these unique slug coils.

 

The cool thing about PAF's clones is that there are so many variations out there that there is a PAF style pickup to please almost everybody. My approach has been to wind them like they were originally on the same vintage machines and construct them as closely to original as I can. The response I have gotten from users has be overwhelmingly positive. But there are a ton of great sounding PAF style pickups out there and it's always up to the customer to decide what they like, which is as it should be.

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fxdx99 Experienced

fxdx99

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;D ;D ;D

 

Excellent, Kenny.  +1.  Although the left hand comment should read "awesome guitar player".  Well, guess both comments could say that come to think of it...

 

Thanks for the post, too, Jon - and thanks for rescuing the winder and making your killer pickups!!

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jamison162 Contributor

jamison162

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There is a Heritage tie to Thobak pups. I'll let someone else (or Thobak, himself) tell the story more accurately.

 

Hehehe, I know what they are.  Been hearing about them for months.  I was being sarcastic on the guy spinning the name everytime he mentions one..."PAF Throbak".  Thanks for the nice story though, I'm sure others will enjoy.

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