chico Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 <snip> edited to add: my point: in all engineering design there is always a trade-off.. respectfully, chico ------------------------- Completely and absolutely agree. There are some 'improvements' that drive me nuts. On the other hand, aren't there some simple fixes that yield a headstock transition sturdier without impacting weight, sound, or aesthetics? A have a volute on a 75 Les Paul that doesn't bother me at all and I've heard that it helps avoid breaks. I'm not the right kind of engineer to offer mechanical insights but I do enjoy seeing the opinions of others on the topic. and I'm with you on the product improvement without any comprimise in design that seat belts added to vehicles,.. and I survived growing up riding in a car without em and with metal dashboard! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 And then we'd have a group of people who would insist that it detracted from the tone and Gibson would charge $500 to have the 'vintage' truss rod Or figure out a way to adjust the truss rod like a EVH guitar instead, but that would take away from the TRC everyone loves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 Don't drop it and it won't break? Really? So.. we don't need seat belts. Just don't crash your car. We don't need fire extinguishers. Just don't start a fire. Cheap knobs that break? No problem. Just be careful. We don't need anything planned, engineered or designed in consideration for unforeseen events. Um.. sure. Products should be engineered to consider accidents particularly when it's a common occurrence and when the fixes are not terribly expensive or complex. That would be part of the definition of a better product. There are hundreds of modern examples around you that make products more sturdy, easier to live with, and less expensive to repair. Ask the guy after he backs into a pole with his Corvette what his opinion is on 5mph bumpers. Oh my was that ever perfectly stated. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 Touche, spook! In my mind, it's a small percentage of the guitars that do break, and careful handling reduces the likelihood of a break. When i poked a hole in the back of my Larrivee whilst walking into a unfamiliar cabin in the dark, I didn't blast Jean for having soft thin Mahogany as a material, I blasted myself for not doing more to avoid what was an honest mistake. that geometry is part of the instrument. You know how fragile a stradivarius is? Made differently, it's no longer a Stradivarius. To that end, couldn't they put the adjustment for the truss rod behind the heel, with access panel similar to a bolt on neck panel? that would allow the same geometry, but more mass as the neck angle. I'm sure this has all been considered over the last half century, and there's some reason we've got what we've got. Interesting conversation. And for what it's worth, I strongly disagree that this forum is "going the direction" of others in terms of adversarial tone. Sure every now and then someone gets a hair across their a**, but in years and years of forum use, in many different "arenas" (guitars and 4x4 mostly) I can say this place is unique, and assert it ain't gonna change much. Add a couple thousand more members to the mix and it will become a shoutin match like they all do. I really hope not because this is a very modest forum, but if you get enough opinions going at one time it usually isnt pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jayce Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 and I'm with you on the product improvement without any comprimise in design that seat belts added to vehicles,.. and I survived growing up riding in a car without em and with metal dashboard! lol Oh i remeber those days well, going down the road in a 6,000 pound 67 buick at 70 mph hanging off the rearview mirror or layin in the back dash. Those where the good ole days but that being said,,, what the heck was wrong with our parents???????????? Thats kind of a difficult smudge to wipe away in parenting history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Oh my was that ever perfectly stated. +1But...why does the person have to buy a Heritage, Gibson or Corvette? I don't think anyone argues that they'd like for their guitar to be bomb proof. If this honestly was a big enough issue, it would hurt their sales enough to force their hand. Since it isn't, they won't. If I personally have a problem with a design, I just don't buy their guitars no matter how much I want one unless I am willing to accept the downside which may be an easy failure of some sort. This goes with about everything and not just guitars. Your strongest voice is in your wallet...next to the condom. Use it wisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 The way I see it, please break your headstocks and get them repaired. That way it will bother you too much knowing that guitar on the wall suffered a break and you'll sell it off cheaply to a guy like me that couldn't of afforded the guitar otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodbad Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I think this thread could last for ever, and I can tell you it's given me a few sleepless nights, primarily because as well intentioned as I try to be, I am genetically clumsy . So after a long discussion with Ren today, he has agreed to build me a 150CMFPBARHS. As we all know, you never break your leg or any other appendage for that matter, in the same place twice, so I think the Curly Maple Factory Pre Broken And Repaired Head Stock is the way to go, play it all night and knock in fence posts with it in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Can't we agree to agree, or agree to disagree, or disagree on how to agree and just move on...... Like Barry said if you don't like it don't buy it. Other manufactures have added a volute and I don't see them over taking Gibson. Gibson doesn't seem it is worth changing to increase sales, so let's let this die and start a new topic..... like headstock shape!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP515 Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Can't we agree to agree, or agree to disagree, or disagree on how to agree and just move on...... Like Barry said if you don't like it don't buy it. Other manufactures have added a volute and I don't see them over taking Gibson. Gibson doesn't seem it is worth changing to increase sales, so let's let this die and start a new topic..... like headstock shape!!!! But you haven't agreed that I am right yet... Actually I don't think any minds will be changed but you gotta admit this one got lots of attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genericmusic Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 So after a long discussion with Ren today, he has agreed to build me a 150CMFPBARHS. As we all know, you never break your leg or any other appendage for that matter, in the same place twice, so I think the Curly Maple Factory Pre Broken And Repaired Head Stock is the way to go, play it all night and knock in fence posts with it in the morning. hahahhahhha...nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook410 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Seems like things aren't so simple anymore and product improvements are more important than ever. If manufacturers of any kind want to stay ahead of the rest of the world, China in particular, they aren't going to do it with 50+ year old designs. They have to innovate and improve faster and better than everyone else or the the cheaper labor in Asia will make it very difficult to be competitive. The quality of guitars from China are improving rapidly. Look at what Eastman is turning out. American guitar makers know our needs better than anyone but they have to keep ahead of the competition to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 innovation seems to be our department. Faithful reproduction seems to be the strength of our suppliers. I hope this stays true. Orville and lloyd had a pretty good run. As have Bill and Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Seems like things aren't so simple anymore and product improvements are more important than ever. If manufacturers of any kind want to stay ahead of the rest of the world, China in particular, they aren't going to do it with 50+ year old designs. They have to innovate and improve faster and better than everyone else or the the cheaper labor in Asia will make it very difficult to be competitive. The quality of guitars from China are improving rapidly. Look at what Eastman is turning out. American guitar makers know our needs better than anyone but they have to keep ahead of the competition to survive. So when is the last time a Chinese guitar company implemented a new guitar design??? They are doing the same thing everyone else is, making copies of the tried and true classic designs. I agree that China's quality is improving, but I don't see the innovation you are talking about. Personally, I still shy away from Korean and Chinese guitars and amps..... But Japan is making some very good quality products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HRB853370 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 So when is the last time a Chinese guitar company implemented a new guitar design??? They are doing the same thing everyone else is, making copies of the tried and true classic designs. I agree that China's quality is improving, but I don't see the innovation you are talking about. Personally, I still shy away from Korean and Chinese guitars and amps..... But Japan is making some very good quality products. But fewer and fewer guitars are coming out of Japan anymore. Everything is made in korea, china, taiwan or indonesia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 But fewer and fewer guitars are coming out of Japan anymore. Everything is made in korea, china, taiwan or indonesia! So true. And I never thought I'd say this, but the quality of some high end Korean instruments has risen to the level of comparable Japanese instruments. I still steer clear of Chinese made stuff...mainly due to their economic and human rights and p******s. Oops...sorry, Moderators! Man, this thread has gone around the world and back again! Ha, Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HRB853370 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 But fewer and fewer guitars are coming out of Japan anymore. Everything is made in korea, china, taiwan or indonesia! As long as its South Korea and NOT North Korea, I am ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Nearly always if an innovative guitar or any other product comes out of China its been designed else where. For now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook410 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 So when is the last time a Chinese guitar company implemented a new guitar design??? They are doing the same thing everyone else is, making copies of the tried and true classic designs. I agree that China's quality is improving, but I don't see the innovation you are talking about. Personally, I still shy away from Korean and Chinese guitars and amps..... But Japan is making some very good quality products. Dangit.. somehow I typed 'they' need to innovate when what I meant to type was 'we' need to innovate. Would go fix it but apparently there is some constraint on editting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cod65 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 So when is the last time a Chinese guitar company implemented a new guitar design??? probably like 800 A.D. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.