the jayce Posted April 14, 2012 Author Share Posted April 14, 2012 I'm a little taken aback by the tone of some of the posts on this thread. It's as if we can have no sympathy for the fact that mistakes, or unintended events, happen. People back into things that are absolutely invisible from their mirrors ,,, of course it is possible to argue that we should be aware of that possibility, and get out of the car, walk behind, and look every time ... but who does that? Similarly, we should all be aware that angled-headstock mahogany necks, esp. at pitch, are very vulnerable to shock, but, we all play them on stages, in homes with kids and dogs, or ship them in situations that are largely out of our control. We don't play vases on crowded stages. I posted my story because I am very careful about my guitars --to the point that I'm sure some people see me as a jerk about it, and I worry that I am -- and yet I broke a headstock. I'm not arguing that the design should be changed, but it is tough to invest big bucks and emotion into an instrument and have it break at a very vulnerable spot in its design, as a result of a surprisingly small amount of force. (It happens, but I rarely see acoustic headstock breaks --I think breaks are the result both of a weak spot AND a LOT of leverage generated by the weight of the bodies of electric guitars, and of modern tuners on the other end, as cod65 points out.) I understand why people are shocked and frustrated when it happens ,,, I think the design might have evolved differently if guitars had not taken a particular form based on acoustic design and peg tuners, and then been electrified and made solid and loaded with metal hardware. I suspect Rob could testify to the number of beaks that come into guitar repair shops, often guitars of long time players who know to be careful, but ... Fortunately, as Fredzepp points out, it is true that with modern adhesives and repair techniques, it is possible to fix a very high percentage of breaks. I'll certainly never forget the moment when I realized I'd cracked the headstock on my big red baby, but the repair has been absolutely stable for more than 30 years and was from the beginning invisible unless you knew where to look and held the guitar under light at a particular angle (but don't do that ... might bang the headstock, and, trust me, that sucker will break.) Perfectly stated. I too have noticed folks on the hoc being a little more snappy with eachother( they try and thread it in between the lines but you can just feel that anger a brewin) . Wont be long and they will have it just like anyother forum out there, people arguing all day long about how right they are and how wrong you are, sad but looks to be headed that way. Folks basically calling others morons with the beat around the bush comments because they feel they have never broke a headstock so they have done a better job in caring for the guitar. God forbid you mention anything that has to do with a improvement in the guitar to prevent breaking your 2800 guitar. Wont do that agiain, i can feel the ropes already a swingin in the midst if one dare's. Lol! Just people being people as always............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I think my posts here have not been taken with the "tongue & cheek" nature they were intended as. Do Gibson/Heritage guitars have an inherent weak spot behind the neck? Absolutely. Can this area be strengthen? Absolutely. In fact, Terry McInturff, Chuck Thornton, and others have added extra mass (a stronger volute) behind the headstock. Will this decrease headstock breaks? Possibly. But because of the 17 degree headstock angle, that also helps dictate the sound, tone, and sustain of these guitar there will always be this issue. All I was implying (with some humor) is that accidents do happen and we need to be EXTRA careful with these guitar. I hope I did not imply that I am not sympathetic to ANYONE that has an accidental headstock break. That would be horrible. But extra caution will GREATLY decrease the chances of breaks happening. I really don't feel anyone has been improper here at HOC, quite the contrary about this place. I feel & appreciate everyone's opinions. And that all they are, opinions. And all the opinion should be equal, no ones means more than another. Hopefully this post helps to clarify my view and empathy on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I'm a little taken aback by the tone of some of the posts on this thread. It's me. I knew I should have stayed away. Terrible influence. I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 It's me. I knew I should have stayed away. Terrible influence. I apologize. ha... you do have an effect.... not sure where it leads. nice to see you posting again. Strangely , as this thread speaks of headstock breaks, I'm trying to negotiate a deal on a Kzoo Norlin with a repair.... may or may not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 I'm glad the 1988 H-170 I bought from Brent early last year had a headstock break; That meant I got a great guitar for a lot less than it would have cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Hey guys I'm honestly not really sure where I stand on this. I think if it's possible to strengthen the headstock without changing the charchter of the guitar then why not? I also think, if your primary concern is the vulnerable headstock, then buy a fender or G&L, in other words, it's a risk I'm willing to take. What I'm wondering is, how exactly are the headstocks fitted on these guitars, is it a scarf joint, or one solid piece or what ? Honestly It's never been a real consideration for me, but this thread made me wonder if there is a better way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cod65 Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Trouble, I think its a solid piece, all the way up thru the neck to the top of the headstock, with two little 'wings' on either side to make the headstock wider. I think people are snappy in general, because the economy has been tough on most everyone. People tend to look for any available way to blow off steam. I take my new dog down to the dog park and find myself getting 'snappy' and self-righteous in ways I thought I never would when I finally had a dog of my own. but I digress.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HRB853370 Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I'm a little taken aback by the tone of some of the posts on this thread. It's as if we can have no sympathy for the fact that mistakes, or unintended events, happen. People back into things that are absolutely invisible from their mirrors ,,, of course it is possible to argue that we should be aware of that possibility, and get out of the car, walk behind, and look every time ... but who does that? This should make everybody chuckle, a year ago, I realized I forgot something after having left my house and when I got to the entrance to my subdivision, I threw the car in reverse, hit the gas, turned the wheel sharply to the right as I was attempting to back up into the neighbors driveway to turn around. Unfortunately, I misjudged where the driveway actually was (I was using my rear view mirror instead of turning my head around to actually look) and I slammed right into their brick mailbox post, so hard that I even knocked a concrete pineapple off the top of their post on to their driveway. The brick structure was fine-my rear quarter panel and rear strut was not. A total embarrassment and it cost me around $650 to get repaired (just the broken strut, my quarter panel remains damaged). Shit happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I do recall that Townshend used to have a problem with his guitars holding together. Perhaps the volute would've been sturdier... rooster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 This should make everybody chuckle, a year ago, I realized I forgot something after having left my house and when I got to the entrance to my subdivision, I threw the car in reverse, hit the gas, turned the wheel sharply to the right as I was attempting to back up into the neighbors driveway to turn around. Unfortunately, I misjudged where the driveway actually was (I was using my rear view mirror instead of turning my head around to actually look) and I slammed right into their brick mailbox post, so hard that I even knocked a concrete pineapple off the top of their post on to their driveway. The brick structure was fine-my rear quarter panel and rear strut was not. A total embarrassment and it cost me around $650 to get repaired (just the broken strut, my quarter panel remains damaged). Shit happens. Once while drunk and annoyed (don't remember why now) I backed my ex wifes Mustang about 100 yards down the gravel road that ran beside our house and while I was looking for traffic at the intersection took out a stop sign. I have no idea what this has to do with headstock breaks, but yes, shit doth happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckyrock Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I'm certain Heritage will build a guitar with a 3 or 5 piece neck. Use all maple, or maple and mahogany. I believe some 70's instruments came out of k-zoo this way. I don't think I've ever seen one of these break. It may be different, but if a strong neck is important to you, have it built strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schundog Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 This should make everybody chuckle, a year ago, I realized I forgot something after having left my house and when I got to the entrance to my subdivision, I threw the car in reverse, hit the gas, turned the wheel sharply to the right as I was attempting to back up into the neighbors driveway to turn around. Unfortunately, I misjudged where the driveway actually was (I was using my rear view mirror instead of turning my head around to actually look) and I slammed right into their brick mailbox post, so hard that I even knocked a concrete pineapple off the top of their post on to their driveway. The brick structure was fine-my rear quarter panel and rear strut was not. A total embarrassment and it cost me around $650 to get repaired (just the broken strut, my quarter panel remains damaged). Shit happens. Yeah, but, you know, you're REALLY a drummer, so we understand... Just kidding, brother. Shit happens, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koula901 Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Your right Steinburgers are ugly, it's why I don't own one, but you have to admire the engineering. they look menacing . . . you'd need a headless person on a horse, to play one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Is it just me, or do any of you also see a certain irony in all of this discussion about broken headstocks on a Heritage guitar forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Ive dropped or watched every single guitar I own take a tumble. I guess Im not very careful. Theyre all marked with probably avoidable dents. My heart sank when my H150 slid along my desk it was leaning on and then twisted and went face first on to the floor. I picked it up expecting the worst but nothing more than a new chip/scratch/gouge on the face. According to stories on the web that fall should have broken the headstock right off. Im sure I was probably lucky. But I do think the fragility of the design is over stated. Im sure its not as strong as it could be perhaps, but it is a musical instrument and not a hammer or cold chisel so I guess the onus is on the owner not to drop it, not on the manufacturer to change his design so ham fisted morons and clumsy idiots can feel secure in their lack of fore thought. I have played a few H150 type guitars with the volute and non of them really did it for me. The volute seemed intrusive and the necks didnt vibrate like I expected. Dont know if it was the p/ups or some other slight design difference like fret size but they didnt feel and sound right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Larry wrote: I'm not arguing that the design should be changed, but it is tough to invest big bucks and emotion into an instrument and have it break at a very vulnerable spot in its design, as a result of a surprisingly small amount of force. (It happens, but I rarely see acoustic headstock breaks --I think breaks are the result both of a weak spot AND a LOT of leverage generated by the weight of the bodies of electric guitars, and of modern tuners on the other end, as cod65 points out.) === Larry, my HFT445 had a broken neck, though it happend during production at the factory. they glued it back together and it stays in tune/plays wonderfully no prob with it, just a little 'character' ... FWIW who knows what caused that break... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 well it's part of the traditional design of a LP or H150 and we're stuck with it I guess they could insert a carbon fiber support piece in there, but all the traditionalists probably wouldn't want that when I put a guitar down I always make sure it's somewhere gravity can't take it any lower I NEVER lean them up against something, that's just asking for trouble. as well as marking up the neck, which gets annoying. I don't trust guitar stands either: I've seen too many spills from dogs, tangled cables, drunk people & plain old accidents. the only stand I use is one that stacks them beside each other & it's "impossible" to knock over so I either lay it in the case, flat on top of a speaker cab, facedown on the bed/couch, or whatever. been lucky so far. fwiw I never got a hostile/testy vibe from this thread at all, not sure where that came in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I've owned guitars notorious for headstock breaks with no problem. As mentioned, take care of your guitar and it won't break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrymclark Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Accidents will happen but that is life. I've had one headstock break and that was because I let friend borrow it that was very careless. All of my guitars stay in case if not in hand. NEVER on a guitar stand even at shows. Another thing is, I do my research when I am buying so I know what I am getting into. If a guitar (SG) has a vulnerable headstock, then I be sure to practice appropriate care. Shit happens, sure, but you sure as hell can reduce potential for accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HRB853370 Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Yeah, but, you know, you're REALLY a drummer, so we understand... Just kidding, brother. Shit happens, indeed. Ha! Ya got me there Brian, yes I was pounding on the dash instead of watching where I was going!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Just saying, if I drop a guitar I am expecting it to break. Don't drop your guitar and it won't break. My thoughts EXACTLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfan Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I've owned guitars notorious for headstock breaks with no problem. As mentioned, take care of your guitar and it won't break. If it does fall victim, it will be my fault from dropping it, leaving it out for the kids to run into, ect..... if it breaks it will be my fault. None of them have broken in their case in the closet yet, which is where they are stored when they aren't being played. The key is look before backing up into a pole with your corvette. If not, then get a Ford F-150 (otherwise known as a Tele!!!) Not to sound like an idiot (because I am not trying to belittle anyone), but if I drop a vase I expect it to break. If I drop a china plate I expect it to break. If I drop a two litter on the roof of my car I expect a dent. Just saying, if I drop a guitar I am expecting it to break. Don't drop your guitar and it won't break. I have probably own 50 guitar in over 25 years..... never dropped one.....never broke a headstock. I've owned guitars notorious for headstock breaks with no problem. As mentioned, take care of your guitar and it won't break. I agree with all of these posts. especially the Tele reference, perfect instrument for a bar room full of drunks (can also be used as a bludgeon if necessary), a house full of kids or for very clumsy / or bad luck / accident prone guitarists. And if the neck somehow breaks (never heard of it though) bolt on a new one with upgrades of your choice. The neck design of our beloved Gibbie types is what it is, I wouldn't change it. And there is an up side for those on a budget, a broken headstock guitar properly repaired is a great bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big bob Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I just gotta say. The timing of this thread sox decks. I have a super precious package out for delivery on monday... thanks for the constant worry this thread has caused me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I just gotta say. The timing of this thread sox decks. I have a super precious package out for delivery on monday... thanks for the constant worry this thread has caused me.. Is it hollow? Edit... incoming or outgoing... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trouble Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 Is it hollow? Edit... incoming or outgoing... ? I'm wondering who snagged the Trini Lopez! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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