DetroitBlues Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Recently I acquired a Fender Blues Jr. in a trade. First time I used it at band practice, I had the amp on the stand. I thought the tone was usable, but not as good as my Peavey DeltaBlues. At my last practice, I decided to leave the stand at home and play the amp on the ground. To my amazement, I couldn't believe how much better the amp sounded just being on the floor. I tried the same thing with my Deltablues and found the tone sounds much better on the floor. Can anyone explain this? Does the direction of the speaker really matter? Does the floor (hard surfaces) absorb some unfavorable tones? Has anyone else noticed this? Do bear in mind I been messing with my pedals and tone knobs on the guitar trying to find a nice sweet spot, but I contribute a lot of it to the amp's location... Typically, I'm only standing a few feet away from the amp with it being behind me unless I jump on the wah pedal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameBand Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Typically, speakers on the floor will produce more bass. However, the idea has to do with whether you use your amp for the audience (on the floor) or as a self monitor (on a stand) so you hear it best without messing with the stage mix. Some guitar players even go as far as to place a sheet of Sonex on a piece of plywood backing (sound absorbtion material) in front of the amp the same size as the amp to restrict the audience from hearing the amp without affecting the tone of the amp for mics or recording. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 We always had crappy monitors so I pretty much had to use a stand back in the day..Gonna hopefully be getting some better monitors soon, So hopefully fix that problem..One thing to think about though, is if the amp is on a stand, it's closer to your ears so it will naturally keep the stage volume down, which is a pet peeve of mine.. I can't stand a blasting guitar that isn't balanced with the other musicians.. My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HRB853370 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Interesting, I should try my Delta Blues on the floor. One of my complaints is lack of bass and it is on an amp stand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0aj15 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 It's due to a phenomenon called bass coupling. Google it, you'll get many good explanations. It's one reason many guitar players prefer to keep their amps on the floor and simply tilt them back such as the classic Fenders that come with tilt back legs. It has to do with the coupling of the bass tones being magnified by the floor. Other cabs (mostly closed back or sealed cabs work much better on an amp stand because they don't need the help of the floor to achieve the added bass. In fact many closed back cabs sound better off the floor because on the floor they have to much bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmeyrick Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm not sure this is still available (the website's latest update is from 2003), but it would seem to be an interesting solution (http://www.soundenha...he_enhancer.htm)- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LK155 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Or, if you have an open-backed combo amp you could build your own stand. Yes, it really does enhance the low frequency content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0aj15 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm not sure this is still available (the website's latest update is from 2003), but it would seem to be an interesting solution (http://www.soundenha...he_enhancer.htm)- I've always been leary of that kind of solution because of the heat build-up. In fact most often I use a small fan behind my tube amps to keep them at a reasonable temp, because just tilting them back can cause damaging heat buildup, let-alone blocking air flow all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 One thing to think about though, is if the amp is on a stand, it's closer to your ears so it will naturally keep the stage volume down, which is a pet peeve of mine.. Yeah, bass response can suffer on a stand, but I think the potential benefits outweigh that. I have a tilt-back stand, which I use frequently to place my Princeton Reverb on, as a personal monitor on larger stages. I also have a taller, folding, restaurant tray stand, you know the one the waitress carries to the table, to set trays full of food on. When we play smaller gigs, where we need to be careful about stage volume, I'll set the amp on a piece of plexiglass, on top of the tray stand, right behind me. It's not aimed up at my head, but more at my chest. Very audible, and it does a good job of making the amp sound good and clear to me, while allowing me to hear everyone else; therefore, I find keeping the volume down, much easier. We played a small outdoor gig last weekend at a venue with a varied audience...difficult territory to negotiate. We all -- Stan, the bass player, too -- put our amps up on these stands. Used the 5E3, and a couple of pedals to good effect. The thing was, we had a number of compliments on how good we sounded, and how listenable we were for an electric band. The folks who hired us were thrilled, and what I've discovered is that this usually leads to more gigs. I really enjoy playing in a band that, given the right circumstances, can let it rip, but can also pull it way back and keep an audience at a small venue. Stands are crucial to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111518 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Yup, I'll happily sacrifice some lows in exchange for hearing myself without contributing to too much stage volume. I have a couple of stands that I use. Since the mids and highs are the freqs that cut through the mix, and the lows tend toward mud, breaking the bass coupling is probably a positive for the overall sound of ,most bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Or, if you have an open-backed combo amp you could build your own stand. Yes, it really does enhance the low frequency content. I remember that thread when you built this. I long forgot about it though. It could also explain why the KBP RD sounded awesome when it was just on the floor in my carpeted living room than it ever did on the stand when Blunote bought it. All of my amps are open back, most of the heat from the tubes is absorbed on the top of the amp and there are no vents to prevent overheating. A small fan may work, but I think if the tube biasing is set cold enough, it shouldn't be a problem. I've always been leary of that kind of solution because of the heat build-up. In fact most often I use a small fan behind my tube amps to keep them at a reasonable temp, because just tilting them back can cause damaging heat buildup, let-alone blocking air flow all together. I remember this now. I had forgotten all about those. This is the amp stand I'm using now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitArtMan Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'm not sure this is still available (the website's latest update is from 2003), but it would seem to be an interesting solution (http://www.soundenha...he_enhancer.htm)- I've been using one for about 10 years now and love it. There was a thread a few months back where the owner of Sound Enhancer jumped in and mentioned their was a redesign in the works. Supposed to be a new, lighter (more portable), one size fits all solution coming out. However, The last time I checked the website it was still caught in a time warp back to 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I've always been leary of that kind of solution because of the heat build-up. In fact most often I use a small fan behind my tube amps to keep them at a reasonable temp, because just tilting them back can cause damaging heat buildup, let-alone blocking air flow all together. I rigged a 3" rack fan to cool my Delta Blues. I only use it during breaks and I like the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smurph1 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Yeah, bass response can suffer on a stand, but I think the potential benefits outweigh that. I have a tilt-back stand, which I use frequently to place my Princeton Reverb on, as a personal monitor on larger stages. I also have a taller, folding, restaurant tray stand, you know the one the waitress carries to the table, to set trays full of food on. When we play smaller gigs, where we need to be careful about stage volume, I'll set the amp on a piece of plexiglass, on top of the tray stand, right behind me. It's not aimed up at my head, but more at my chest. Very audible, and it does a good job of making the amp sound good and clear to me, while allowing me to hear everyone else; therefore, I find keeping the volume down, much easier. We played a small outdoor gig last weekend at a venue with a varied audience...difficult territory to negotiate. We all -- Stan, the bass player, too -- put our amps up on these stands. Used the 5E3, and a couple of pedals to good effect. The thing was, we had a number of compliments on how good we sounded, and how listenable we were for an electric band. The folks who hired us were thrilled, and what I've discovered is that this usually leads to more gigs. I really enjoy playing in a band that, given the right circumstances, can let it rip, but can also pull it way back and keep an audience at a small venue. Stands are crucial to this. Thank you!! I've been preaching this for years..But NOBODY listens to me!! Thank You!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0aj15 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I only have one combo left, the rest are all head/speaker cab or rack type rigs but with that one combo a Traynor YCV-50 I use a modified version of this; I simply removed the extension arms and applied 1/2" thick X 3/4" wide weather-stripping to the forward facing legs of the A-frame which allows me to keep the amp on the floor while leaning it back at a perfect angle for listening. The results are better bass & more controlled volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I only have one combo left, the rest are all head/speaker cab or rack type rigs but with that one combo a Traynor YCV-50 I use a modified version of this; I simply removed the extension arms and applied 1/2" thick X 3/4" wide weather-stripping to the forward facing legs of the A-frame which allows me to keep the amp on the floor while leaning it back at a perfect angle for listening. The results are better bass & more controlled volume. Duh!!! Have a stand just like this, and what you've done has never occurred to me. What a good idea! Thanks, t0aj! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulk1 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Duh!!! Have a stand just like this, and what you've done has never occurred to me. What a good idea! Thanks, t0aj! Uh ... me too! Think I'm going to try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 I only have one combo left, the rest are all head/speaker cab or rack type rigs but with that one combo a Traynor YCV-50 I use a modified version of this; I simply removed the extension arms and applied 1/2" thick X 3/4" wide weather-stripping to the forward facing legs of the A-frame which allows me to keep the amp on the floor while leaning it back at a perfect angle for listening. The results are better bass & more controlled volume. Got a pick of that? I'd like to see that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I use an old milk crate....also handy to haul cables etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjsanders Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 have tried a buncha different types, incl. chairs & milk carts, but my favorite & choice for the past couple of years is the Standback (http://www.standback.net/). not an issue w/head-cab combinations, cuz my cabs have angled baffles. combos i use are Jukes (1x12 & the 1x12+2x10). coupling to the floor is a big deal for me... heat buildup doesn't seem to have been a problem, but i don't play out that much. used to use a small fan, tho, when i had a BFSR. biasing cold is not a good idea for a couple-few reasons, the main one being tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I like an amp stand, so that I can hear the amp well and it makes the controls on some combos easier to get to. But at home the Egnator is on the floor , and..... the controls are on the top so that part is easy. I remember playing in a bowling alley a while back and the sound was overly bright.. lots of reflective surfaces. And then I discovered that the Bright switch was switched on during transport to the gig.... oops. It's all about dialing it in for the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 I like an amp stand, so that I can hear the amp well and it makes the controls on some combos easier to get to. But at home the Egnator is on the floor , and..... the controls are on the top so that part is easy. I remember playing in a bowling alley a while back and the sound was overly bright.. lots of reflective surfaces. And then I discovered that the Bright switch was switched on during transport to the gig.... oops. It's all about dialing it in for the room. I noticed on the blues jr, it sounds much better with the fat switch engaged with a strat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t0aj15 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Got a pick of that? I'd like to see that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Great idea!! This is my amp stand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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