DetroitBlues Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 As a few here already know, my '85 140 had a broken headstock. But unlike Gibson, it seems to be rather uncommon. How many of you had to fix the headstock on your Heritage? I'm always running across broken Gibsons, but I've never come across more than 2 total broken Heritages.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I've seen a few. The reason why there are more broken Gibson headstocks is because there are simply that many more Gibsons. Also, the demographic of Gibson owners is different than that of heritage owners, many of whom baby their guitars. I know plenty of Gibson owners that treat their Gibby like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 I've seen a few. The reason why there are more broken Gibson headstocks is because there are simply that many more Gibsons. Also, the demographic of Gibson owners is different than that of heritage owners, many of whom baby their guitars. I know plenty of Gibson owners that treat their Gibby like crap. That makes a lot of sense. I've seen quite a few Gibson's that appeared to have been used as a paddle on a dirt road. My '85 has some wear and tear, but its much better shape than a few Gibson's I've seen that are less than 10 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heritagefan7 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 My LP studio cracked just below the headstock---Luthier said it was those "darn" Gibson headstocks. He repaired it, but it is what it is...I absolutely baby my Heritages, prob too much so. Maybe it's only in my mind, but the H's just seem more like royalty and so they get that treatment. No knock on gibby's, it's just that my H's never decided all on their own that they wanted to up and crack. Still love the LP, 99% great git...just had that unfortunate experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 My LP studio cracked just below the headstock---Luthier said it was those "darn" Gibson headstocks. He repaired it, but it is what it is...I absolutely baby my Heritages, prob too much so. Maybe it's only in my mind, but the H's just seem more like royalty and so they get that treatment. No knock on gibby's, it's just that my H's never decided all on their own that they wanted to up and crack. Still love the LP, 99% great git...just had that unfortunate experience. A friend and HOC member had a Gibson LP a couple years ago and the headstock broke on it while just sitting in its stand. It took almost no pressure for the wood to just split apart. I've never heard a Heritage do that. Mine was dropped and the other one I've seen was from being smashed during shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 The H150 with the TV Jones classics in it that was at PSP had a headstock repair as well. That thing was kinda beat up though, but still sounded INCREDIBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankS Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 The headstock on a friends 335 broke while the case. The case fell over and when he opened it to make the guitar was OK the headstock was broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Maestro Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I have had a Headstock broken off... also Mark( marty Grass)... I have also seen several headstock repairs through the forum, so I would say with common designs the same percentage as gibsons probably occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentrocks Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I have never broken one while it was in my possession, but that VIP1 i have has a headstock crack repair, i used to have a blueburst 555 with a headstock repair....if fixed right, they are as good as new, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfan Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm assuming I'm not the only one knocking on wood? Oh the horror... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 I have never broken one while it was in my possession, but that VIP1 i have has a headstock crack repair, i used to have a blueburst 555 with a headstock repair....if fixed right, they are as good as new, IMO Its a shame the value of the guitar dimishes so much when that happens, but I wouldn't have the Heritages I have today if it wasn't for a broken headstock on the 140 and a neck reset on the 445. I wouldn't be able to afford them otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbetts41 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 My 150 goldtop has had a repair. I didn't even notice it until I had it set up & the guy mentioned how well it was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HRB853370 Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 As a few here already know, my '85 140 had a broken headstock. But unlike Gibson, it seems to be rather uncommon. How many of you had to fix the headstock on your Heritage? I'm always running across broken Gibsons, but I've never come across more than 2 total broken Heritages.... Think about your question logically, and it's easy to explain. Think about how many more Gibsons are in the world than Heritages. The law of averages would dictate that you will always find more broken Gibson headstocks than Heritages because of the exponentially greater number in the world. Heritage has been in business 26 years. Gibson has been in business for about 95 years. Heritage produces about 7 guitars per day. Gibson produces hundreds of guitars per day. By the way, no offense to Tbone, I replied before I even read his post, so we are both on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Think about your question logically, and it's easy to explain. Think about how many more Gibsons are in the world than Heritages. The law of averages would dictate that you will always find more broken Gibson headstocks than Heritages because of the exponentially greater number in the world. Heritage has been in business 26 years. Gibson has been in business for about 95 years. Heritage produces about 7 guitars per day. Gibson produces hundreds of guitars per day. By the way, no offense to Tbone, I replied before I even read his post, so we are both on the same page. Ah, but I've seen some really beat up Heritages with no issues and some not so beat up Gibson's. I was getting at the wood quality of the guitars. Also, many seem to prefer a maple neck over mahogany that helps out the strength of the neck too. That's more of what I was looking to see if anyone felt the same way. Less about the averages of sheer numbers to the quality of the guitars being built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 not the G expert here, but I think broken/cracked necks were a "common" prob w/G's. had to do with the thin-ness of the wood at the bend. I think Heritage 17 degree bend has something to do with better stability. the 70's Norlin G's esp. had the prob, IIRC. i've heard stories of G necks breaking without having been dropped or otherwise stressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I'll never forget receiving a brand spanking new replacement guitar (warranty issue) from Gibson USA, opening the case to a snapped off headstock!! There was NO PADDING inside the case or extra support for the neck. Needless to say, the replacement guitar was sent back for yet another replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyGrass Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I'm not aware of any reason why a Heritage would withstand a blow that would crack the headstock of a Gibson. I do believe that Heritage owners are more responsible and respectful of their instruments. No joke. I'm a big fan of Thornton guitars because the luthier is just damned smart in his design as well as gifted with his hands. On the second page of this report you can see how he's addressed the headstock vulnerability problem. He reports no breaks on his guitars thus far. But I'm sure that anyone who bought one of his guitars will be forever careful of it, unlike the run-of-the-mill LPs. http://www.cpthorntonguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/TQRApr11_Proof2.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 I'm not aware of any reason why a Heritage would withstand a blow that would crack the headstock of a Gibson. I do believe that Heritage owners are more responsible and respectful of their instruments. No joke. I'm a big fan of Thornton guitars because the luthier is just damned smart in his design as well as gifted with his hands. On the second page of this report you can see how he's addressed the headstock vulnerability problem. He reports no breaks on his guitars thus far. But I'm sure that anyone who bought one of his guitars will be forever careful of it, unlike the run-of-the-mill LPs. http://www.cpthornto...pr11_Proof2.pdf This guy is doing what Gibson did back in the 70's... He uses the volute. To me, its a great idea, and other than it makes it harder to make a neck, why doesn't Heritage do that any more? I'm sure they did it for at least at decade as Gibson employees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I knew a guy who built gtrs & he used to put a carbon fibre support rod in at the headstock bend..seemed like a good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Makes a lot of sense. I've read how Gibson boasts about not needed string tees like Fenders. But how many Fender headstock repairs are there? Another point I forgot about was for a period in the 70's where as Gibson changed the angle to 14 degrees instead of 17. Epiphone does that, and I believe even the vile Ed Roman agrees the Epiphone headstock don't break as easily as Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzef Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Fenders are like the AK47's of guitars, you can put them through hell and they still keep working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbp810 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Makes a lot of sense. I've read how Gibson boasts about not needed string tees like Fenders. But how many Fender headstock repairs are there? Another point I forgot about was for a period in the 70's where as Gibson changed the angle to 14 degrees instead of 17. Epiphone does that, and I believe even the vile Ed Roman agrees the Epiphone headstock don't break as easily as Gibson. Very well may be a very valid point... but also have to wonder how many broken epi's or similar guitars would actually make it in to see a luthier - in many cases the cost of repair may well exceed the cost of outright replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetroitBlues Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share Posted September 4, 2011 Very well may be a very valid point... but also have to wonder how many broken epi's or similar guitars would actually make it in to see a luthier - in many cases the cost of repair may well exceed the cost of outright replacement. Probably be cause for many do it yourself luthiers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbp810 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Probably be cause for many do it yourself luthiers... Yep, that too... I know if I had a cheap guitar and broke the headstock I'd be breaking out the wood glue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111518 Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 Most modern Epi's, other than the elitists and special models, have scarf joints at the headstock, so there is not the issue of grain run-out which weakens the neck at the joint. This becomes a very different engineering problem than a one piece neck ...and, another example of where the cheaper engineered joint, given modern glues and precision carving, is almost always stronger (but considered by most less desirable.) The reason Gibson reduced the angle at the headstock was to increase strength --less re-orientation of stress in relationship to the grain of the wood. (I think, by the way, this is a significant part of the reason that fender necks never break ... maple is stronger, but also, Fenders don't change the angle of the wood just at the spot where there's a cavity hollowed out for trust rod adjustment.) The volute was suppose to strengthen the joint, (you could see it as adding back the wood that the adjustment cavity takes away), but there is disagreement over whether it was effective, and I've even heard some guitar guys argue that the volute tended to focus stress at the weakest point of the neck and thus contributed to breakage. Some makers now add a "backstrap" of wood with a different grain orientation, or they use carbon fibre at the change of angle. I think it is interesting that Heritage, free of demand from non-luthier corporate bosses to reduce repair costs, went back to the traditional neck angle (which is going to have an impact on perceived string tension --see our discussions about bridges....) and got rid of the volute and, for mahog. neck guitars, the multi-piece neck. For what it's worth, the only headstock I've ever cracked on a guitar was the one on my '70 es355 ...which has a volute. A one piece mahogany neck under stress is just not a robust system ... sucker will break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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