big bob Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I believe the price of stuff new has something to do with the price of that same stuff on the used market. Isn't it safe to assume that all used high end Mercedes sport cars cost more than all used high end Ford Mustangs? Not really. What would you expect to pay for a 1968 Shelby gt 350? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I've noticed used prices on Heritages have gone up too. Or at least people are asking nearly 40% more for them then what we saw a few years ago. Not very many to find under $1,000. My 535 may be my first and only new Heritage. With the price increases in the used market, might be my last too. I remember way back in 2007, just before there was a HOC. I think Brent and I were the only ones buying used Heritage guitars. You could get minty fresh H-150s for $750 all day long. Then the fire happened, the rumors of closed doors, suddenly an influx of members here, used prices started creeping up. Then the factory was open again and new prices went up. Then used prices went up. Then new prices, then... I believe the price of stuff new has something to do with the price of that same stuff on the used market. Isn't it safe to assume that all used high end Mercedes sport cars cost more than all used high end Ford Mustangs? I believe the secondary market follows the new market which is influenced by the secondary market. It's been fascinating to watch the circular or seesaw mechanics of new and used prices over the last 10 years. Not really. What would you expect to pay for a 1968 Shelby gt 350? I would expect to pay nothing for a 1968 Shelby GT350. But, then again, I'm delusional and I expect the universe to just provide one to me for free. But, as long as the universe is giving me a free classic, why not make it a '67 GT 500. Like the one Jim was driving around in the desert in this Doors video: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 OK, let me put this price topic in to perspective. Name one company or luthier (a respected one, not a just buys the bodies & necks elsewhere and just assembles the guitar) where they offer a handmade guitar with personal sourced wood and charge less than $3,000? There is none. Look at Willcutt's. Look at Wildwood. Gibson, Tyler, Fender, PRS, McInturff, Whitfill, Collings, Taylor, Knaggs, Suhr, Trussart, Tom Anderson...... Show me a US quality guitar under the price of $3000? People, this what the cost of a new quality handmade guitar cost. Heritage is charging what the market is charging. You can't compare MIM or Squire guitars to handmade custom shop guitars. Mic drop, out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobo Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 The Florentine cutaway not only looks too sharp for my eye, it invites a lot more mechanical stress than a larger radius corner. If you bump that sharp corner, you're far more likely to chip it, compared to a corner with a bigger radius. Even all heat cycles of sitting around for years will tend to stress that sharp corner as the guitar naturally expands and contracts. For a semi-hollow, I would really like an H150-sized/shaped body (most comfortable to play for my right hand) with a floating block (to help bring out more of the hollow sound without creating too many feedback issues), in a single cutaway with 2 F-holes (aesthetically-pleasing to me), and the pickup switch on the upper bout (where I'm less likely to hit it inadvertently). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 FWIW, I don't like paying that much for a guitar either. But give me one high quality $3K guitar over 6 average $500. Just my .02, YVMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 OK, let me put this price topic in to perspective. Name one company or luthier (a respected one, not a just buys the bodies & necks elsewhere and just assembles the guitar) where they offer a handmade guitar with personal sourced wood and charge less than $3,000? There is none. Look at Willcutt's. Look at Wildwood. Gibson, Tyler, Fender, PRS, McInturff, Whitfill, Collings, Taylor, Knaggs, Suhr, Trussart, Tom Anderson...... Show me a US quality guitar under the price of $3000? People, this what the cost of a new quality handmade guitar cost. Heritage is charging what the market is charging. You can't compare MIM or Squire guitars to handmade custom shop guitars. Mic drop, out. I agree. What did a new Heritage H150 cost in 2006 btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 New Headstock "Circle H" = fail. Yuck. Price increase = cataclysmic fail. (Price was what Heritage had going for it. If they raise the prices, they will lose market share. And then they will be no more). They may lose market share but increase profit. I have had many products that I was commissioned to sell where we didn't want 40%, nor 50% market share. They only wanted 7% market share. 7% was based on the price, cost of production, and cost marketing. My company could never be the market leader, but we could make a healthy profit at 7% M.S. Profit margin is what a businesses is looking at, not just volume & market share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuz Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I agree. What did a new Heritage H150 cost in 2006 btw? I paid $2200 for my GT P90 150 in 2006 and $2350 for My GT 150 in 2007 (humbuckers) from Wolfe's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffB Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I paid $2200 for my GT P90 150 in 2006 and $2350 for My GT 150 in 2007 (humbuckers) from Wolfe's. + inflation @2.1% = $2619 for the GT P90 $2720 for the GT150. Factor in price increases in everything else that goes into manufacture and I dont find $3000plus unrealistic. Also, Heritage guitars were a cheap US made guitar in 2006. And hey, everyones had pay increases in line with inflation and living costs, am I right? Dont answer. Its a trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikenov Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 On a positive note, that Millie DC, bottom row second from left, is beautiful. It makes me miss the one I had and foolishly sold (to someone here...Mark?) years ago. WTF was I thinking? I got to play that Millie as well as the prospect they brought. Whoever did the set up on these show guitars did it right. They play and sound sweet! The heritage ram have lots of new blood too. I played models until someone told me to turn it down :/ Worlds largest guitar center! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Not really. What would you expect to pay for a 1968 Shelby gt 350? Had a 68. Didn't like it. Got a new one. Like it better. But that's besides the point. The analogy I cited will not conform to such specific examples which have their own unique circumstances to consider. My example was intended to be interpreted in very broad terms. Is it safe to assume that all used Gibson Les Paul Customs cost more than all used Epiphone Les Paul Customs? Does that translate better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I'm also in a bad mood this morning and the way I feel right now I don't think I give a rat's ass whether I touch a guitar ever again from this day forward or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mars_hall Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I remember way back in 2007, just before there was a HOC. I think Brent and I were the only ones buying used Heritage guitars. You could get minty fresh H-150s for $750 all day long. Then the fire happened, the rumors of closed doors, suddenly an influx of members here, used prices started creeping up. Then the factory was open again and new prices went up. Then used prices went up. Then new prices, then... I believe the secondary market follows the new market which is influenced by the secondary market. It's been fascinating to watch the circular or seesaw mechanics of new and used prices over the last 10 years. I would expect to pay nothing for a 1968 Shelby GT350. But, then again, I'm delusional and I expect the universe to just provide one to me for free. But, as long as the universe is giving me a free classic, why not make it a '67 GT 500. Like the one Jim was driving around in the desert in this Doors video: This was my brother in law's. Got to take it to the prom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Maestro Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 I see this topic has steered way off course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredZepp Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 They may lose market share but increase profit. I think it would be a very safe bet that they increase both substantially ( market share and profit ) when compared to prior to new ownership. And then increase substantially again once the building renovation is done and generating it's own revenue stream with beer garden, restaurant, museum, studio, etc.... The amount of Heritage dealers in the US has already increased by a good amount... and in the end that is how they are sold, by putting them into a musicians hands to play. Getting a robust dealer network going is going to be the big change from the previous owners. It's not going to be hard to beat 800- 1000 guitars a year production from previous years. And no, the quality will not suffer, some areas may improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Maestro Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Kip they had 2 Custom shop mesa cobo down there with smokin flamed cabinets, wish I would have taken pictures... I believe they were supplied by Mesa for cross brand recognition! At one point there was a way cool jam session with 3 players in the middle of the booth... Volume level complaints and all.... Nice booth, and dig the Circle H... and a Boogie combo to play them through.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Seacup Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I see this topic has steered way off course. It's only off-topic due to the egregious lack of pictures, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Maestro Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Ok... I have broken down price changes... The Dealer prices have increased but the reflection covers the costs of Case and bone nut now included on all builds which relatively evens it out. Heritage has also impacted dealer profit margins negatively in support of the end users affordability. Some of you are way to Harsh in your negative expectations! This is a reality, Heritage offers a product that does not exist in any other guitar manufacturer with exception to boutique builders... The do not build cookie cutter guitars. I have always felt the product was under marketed, a product way undervalued due to lack of public exposure (I suspect many others would agree).... Heritage knows what they have to offer... You can still spec a guitar with non-production model features at a steal! I find it hard to believe that some don't understand the value in these guitars.... and were we truly "SPOILED BY A COMPANY THAT DIDN'T MARKET" and hovered close to collapse for years. Heritage is financially solid, the guitars only are a part of a piece big plan, the fans and players are respected immensely, the ever growing employee roster is being well cared for, production has gone to roughly 5 a day with plans to be at 10 a day soon!.... I am extremely impressed with 8 months of progress for the new ownership. Read into my comments as you may, I hope the speculative off topic chatter starts to curb.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millennium Maestro Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 It's only off-topic due to the egregious lack of pictures, man. Sorry man, (everyone)... I got to NAMM for really only Heritage and potential vendors I May work with.... 95% of the convention is stuff I have zero interest in. So I apologize for only sharing Heritage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitfiddler Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Ok... I have broken down price changes... The Dealer prices have increased but the reflection covers the costs of Case and bone nut now included on all builds which relatively evens it out. Heritage has also impacted dealer profit margins negatively in support of the end users affordability. Some of you are way to Harsh in your negative expectations! This is a reality, Heritage offers a product that does not exist in any other guitar manufacturer with exception to boutique builders... The do not build cookie cutter guitars. I have always felt the product was under marketed, a product way undervalued due to lack of public exposure (I suspect many others would agree).... Heritage knows what they have to offer... You can still spec a guitar with non-production model features at a steal! I find it hard to believe that some don't understand the value in these guitars.... and were we truly "SPOILED BY A COMPANY THAT DIDN'T MARKET" and hovered close to collapse for years. Heritage is financially solid, the guitars only are a part of a piece big plan, the fans and players are respected immensely, the ever growing employee roster is being well cared for, production has gone to roughly 5 a day with plans to be at 10 a day soon!.... I am extremely impressed with 8 months of progress for the new ownership. Read into my comments as you may, I hope the speculative off topic chatter starts to curb.... Well said, Guy. I would agree that for years, many of us Heritage fans were at the forefront of one of the best custom guitar bargains in the industry. Now they've entered into the big leagues, expanding dealer networks, refining production, staffing up, improving the brand and most of all, the end product. As Kuz stated so clearly, it costs around $3k and up for most high end, quality, hand made guitars these days. Let's give the boys at Heritage the benefit of the doubt that they've thought about all of the issues we bring up, but with one major exception...They are taking on all of the risk! That is a very sobering thought. If they see that no orders come in for their new circle H logo, or notice a decrease in sales, they will need to make changes. Alternatively, if they see an increase in sales, profits and an expanded customer base (which I anticipate), then maybe they've made the right decisions. For now, it is very early in the game, but I recall some folks here on the HOC chiming in that they'd even be willing investors into Heritage Guitars back when they announced a possible change in ownership. Well they seem to be making tons of progress on their own. All they ask is to be given a chance to prove themselves. We can show our support by buying the products, and cherishing the Heritage guitars that we already own. Prices on the new and used market are going up...just like everything else these days. I'm off my soap box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoslate Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Ok... I have broken down price changes... The Dealer prices have increased but the reflection covers the costs of Case and bone nut now included on all builds which relatively evens it out. Heritage has also impacted dealer profit margins negatively in support of the end users affordability. Some of you are way to Harsh in your negative expectations! This is a reality, Heritage offers a product that does not exist in any other guitar manufacturer with exception to boutique builders... The do not build cookie cutter guitars. I have always felt the product was under marketed, a product way undervalued due to lack of public exposure (I suspect many others would agree).... Heritage knows what they have to offer... You can still spec a guitar with non-production model features at a steal! I find it hard to believe that some don't understand the value in these guitars.... and were we truly "SPOILED BY A COMPANY THAT DIDN'T MARKET" and hovered close to collapse for years. Heritage is financially solid, the guitars only are a part of a piece big plan, the fans and players are respected immensely, the ever growing employee roster is being well cared for, production has gone to roughly 5 a day with plans to be at 10 a day soon!.... I am extremely impressed with 8 months of progress for the new ownership. Read into my comments as you may, I hope the speculative off topic chatter starts to curb.... Well said, Guy. I would agree that for years, many of us Heritage fans were at the forefront of one of the best custom guitar bargains in the industry. Now they've entered into the big leagues, expanding dealer networks, refining production, staffing up, improving the brand and most of all, the end product. As Kuz stated so clearly, it costs around $3k and up for most high end, quality, hand made guitars these days. Let's give the boys at Heritage the benefit of the doubt that they've thought about all of the issues we bring up, but with one major exception...They are taking on all of the risk! That is a very sobering thought. If they see that no orders come in for their new circle H logo, or notice a decrease in sales, they will need to make changes. Alternatively, if they see an increase in sales, profits and an expanded customer base (which I anticipate), then maybe they've made the right decisions. For now, it is very early in the game, but I recall some folks here on the HOC chiming in that they'd even be willing investors into Heritage Guitars back when they announced a possible change in ownership. Well they seem to be making tons of progress on their own. All they ask is to be given a chance to prove themselves. We can show our support by buying the products, and cherishing the Heritage guitars that we already own. Prices on the new and used market are going up...just like everything else these days. I'm off my soap box. A fan who became an HOC'er, who, in turn, became an insider, and a fan with serious objectivity, and playing and forum cred.... Just about everything you need for sound perspective on the new Heritage Guitars is right here, boys and girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANGAR18 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Ok... I have broken down price changes... The Dealer prices have increased but the reflection covers the costs of Case and bone nut now included on all builds which relatively evens it out. Heritage has also impacted dealer profit margins negatively in support of the end users affordability. Some of you are way to Harsh in your negative expectations! This is a reality, Heritage offers a product that does not exist in any other guitar manufacturer with exception to boutique builders... The do not build cookie cutter guitars. I have always felt the product was under marketed, a product way undervalued due to lack of public exposure (I suspect many others would agree).... Heritage knows what they have to offer... You can still spec a guitar with non-production model features at a steal! I find it hard to believe that some don't understand the value in these guitars.... and were we truly "SPOILED BY A COMPANY THAT DIDN'T MARKET" and hovered close to collapse for years. Heritage is financially solid, the guitars only are a part of a piece big plan, the fans and players are respected immensely, the ever growing employee roster is being well cared for, production has gone to roughly 5 a day with plans to be at 10 a day soon!.... I am extremely impressed with 8 months of progress for the new ownership. Read into my comments as you may, I hope the speculative off topic chatter starts to curb.... Are they ever going to list some MSRP's in a free catalog or post publicly like they do at the Gibson web site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zguitar71 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I believe the price of stuff new has something to do with the price of that same stuff on the used market. Isn't it safe to assume that all used high end Mercedes sport cars cost more than all used high end Ford Mustangs? A high end Merc that is in excellent shape and 10 years old sell for 35k or so, about 75% of original price. They have about the worst depreciation out there. I hope that Heritage guitars do not follow their lead! 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressure Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 As a forum member that don't know nuthin bout nuthin and even less bout sumpthin I say onward into the future. Full speed ahead and damn the prices. Let's see more and more of those Fab Heritage guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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