No Sales Equals No Company

[JNEELY]

I absolutely love Heritage Guitars. I currently have a Sweet 16 and a H575 and they are both very impressive in every category. Are there some minor issues? Yes, of course there are, but nothing that prevents me from playing the daylights out of both of them. So, if they make such great guitars, why are they struggling so hard? On my 16, the low E tuner is not straight and points toward the top of the head stock. The ebony bridge is also crooked. The bridge posts were not drilled straight so they sit at and angle. Other than that it sounds breath taking and plays the same way. All guitar manufacturing from the last century had lots of issues like that. They were hand made by humans, specifically American humans. In that time we were and still are, a culture of" it's 5 o'clock somewhere" it's just the way we are. So, stuff inevitably comes off the line flawed. So, the notion that the problem is the fit and finish QC is the primary reason that they struggle is, in my opinion, flawed. I think real reason for their astonishing lack of success has more to do with their lack of innovation, artist product endorsements and lack of of a powerful outside sales force. Let's address these one at a time. When it comes to innovative guitar design, you have to give them an F-. Since this companies beginning, they have really done nothing but mimic the old designs of the previous tenant. To their credit, they really made them better in so much as offering things like solid carved tops on Gibson models that had laminated tops and offering tap tuning etc. But at the end of the day, they are just making Gibson's with a different head stock. This is of course has been a tried and true method for a start up , but at some point you have to get the attention of the market by offering new designs. When it comes to artist endorsement deals, who did they get? Kenny Burrell? Henry Johnson? Mimi Fox? Hey, they are all three great artist, but nobody knows who the are. Okay the had Roy Clark at one point, but it was a little late in his career to make any impact. In the meantime, the folks from Ibanez approached Pat Metheny, George  Benson, John Schofield, Joe Pass and several others. Ibanez came to those guys during the period that Heritage was getting started and the fact that at least one of those guys didn't have a deal with them is nuts. Especially Joe Pass and Barney Kessel. Kessel was playing an old Gibson with the logo painted over. What an opportunity that should have been. Instead, Ibanez design a Barney Kessel model. It's inexcusable that opportunities like that were missed. Okay, what about the hair band endorsements? they got some of those right? No. See issue number one, innovation. They simply failed to produce something those guys might of really liked. And finally, the lack of any aggressive outside sales staff. This last one is purely a guess as I have no inside knowledge of how the Heritage Guitar Company approached this. As a sales person myself, I just go by the results of what you see for sale in most music stores, and it is not The Heritage Guitars. The fact that Jay Wolfe is their largest dealer speaks volumes. Wolfe guitars, while somewhat well known(online), is a smallish little facility tucked away in an industrial park in Jupiter Florida. They offer really great service, expertise and repairs, but if you are in the business of selling production guitars, then you would be very wise indeed to get your instruments into a larger venue. For decades they were a cedia presence that nobody bothered with because of the lack of all three of the aforementioned, innovation, endorsement and sales. How difficult is it to simply look around you at what everyone else is doing and create your on innovative take on it? It can't be that difficult as every other company in the industry has done exactly that. PRS, just came out with the Silver Sky and a very interesting take on an Ibanez S body in the form of the specialty model, the  Chelo, which was made for Herman Li. They just up and stole that guy. Why, I am really not so sure, but it is a very cool guitar. Dear Heritage Guitars, I love what you do, but if you want to keep on doing it, you need to address the obvious and take corrective action NOW. if you don't that proud tradition of hand crafted fine guitars is going to end a final chapter. Chapter 11. 

[Jimbob]

Well now........this post seems to have the potential to stir up a hornet's nest. Popcorn anyone?

[Spectrum13]

Dunning Kruger Effect

That explains it!

[JNEELY]

About That Quality Control Thing.....

[mars_hall]

2 minutes ago, JNEELY said:

About That Quality Control Thing.....

And what year would this guitar be?

[big bob]

Looks like a setup problem. 

[Spectrum13]

I had that same issue on my 575 and that was on an aftermarket saddle and bridge. It was resolved with a second curly washer bottoming out on each of the studs. What is happening in that photo is "rocking torque" That is not a good thing. It needs to be corrected.

[Steiner]

I’m not sure I’m sold on the idea.

Here’s the beauty of being in America: We all can form our own ideas AND we’re free to go out and start our own guitar company.  

[TalismanRich]

You are really out of touch with today's Heritage Guitars.   This isn't 4 old Gibson employees anymore.   Two are still alive,  two have already passed.  Does anyone expect that guys who started working in the late 50s should be building guitars today?  These guys are in their 80s.  Today, it's a different company.

 

First point about giving them an F for not innovating....    Poppycock.

By Jim Deurloo's own admission at PSP last month, when they opened they were making just about anything anyone thought of.   Look back at catalogs from 1989 or 1993.    Stat,  Little One,  H-110,   SAE and SAE custom, HB1, HB2 and HB IV bass,  H-140,  Mandolins,  banjos,  Academy, Prospect,  Mark Slaughter, H-574,  H-480 acoustic,  Parsons Street III and V, Millennium.   

They tried making unique guitars...  they didn't sell.   Guitarists wanted the traditional models,  150 and 535 are the bread and butter.   The various jazz boxes were well received.   I suspect Heritage sells more hollow bodies guitars today than Gibson, who don't even list a traditional jazz box in their current lineup.

It's the same reason Fender sells a dozen Strats and a dozen Teles for every Jazzmaster or Jaguar.   How many Coronados do you see them sell today?   Gibson sells Les Paul,  SG and 3xx variants by the truckload.    How many Covus,  Marauder,  Victory or RDs do they sell?   They're in the catalog.  I don't see many on the Guitar Center wall.

As for not having endorsed artists and heavy advertising,  that costs money.   They simply didn't have the budget to put full page ads in every guitar magazine every month.  Perhaps if they had been charging exorbitant prices, they could have bought more ads, but they also might have sold fewer guitars.   Gibson, Ibanez,  Fender, probably spend more on their annual advertising budget that Heritage made in a year!    As for nobody knowing Kenny Burrell, Mimi Fox, or Henry Johnson,  you must be looking from a rock  perspective.   They are well known in the jazz world.   Gary Moore had a signature,  Alvin Lee did as well.  David Paul had the blue jazz box.   I've seen Buddy Whittington playing a stock H-140.   Alex Skolnick?    Having name  on the guitar doesn't automatically mean that fans flock to buy them, especially when you have limited production capacity.

How many variants of the Stratocaster do you need?     Clapton,  Beck,  Eric Johnson,  Jimi Hendrix, Yngwie Malmsteen,  Jimmy Vaughn,  Stevie Ray,  Robert Cray,  Cory Wong, Rory Gallagher.   That's just part of the artist models.  The same goes for Les Paul variants.   Reinvent the wheel.. .over and over and over again.  

Finally,  I think you are looking at past history.  Today, you can find Heritage guitars at Wolfe,  Daves,  Eddies,  Sweetwater,  Chicago Music Exc,  Cream City, Jimmy Wallace.   That's just the bigger US dealers selling US made guitars.   They have an import line, akin to Epiphone,  Fender Mexico, Squire or PRS SE.   It's not to everyone's liking, but its brand building.   And having played samples of the Ascent+ guitars, they actually played quite well.   I would have no problem walking on a stage with an Ascent+ 150 or 137.  

Heritage is doing just fine.   They are shipping out guitars by the dozen,  not 2 or 3 a week.    It's a different company.  

Edited 38 minutes ago by TalismanRich

[RJLII]

6 hours ago, JNEELY said:

I absolutely love Heritage Guitars. I currently have a Sweet 16 and a H575 and they are both very impressive in every category. Are there some minor issues? Yes, of course there are, but nothing that prevents me from playing the daylights out of both of them. So, if they make such great guitars, why are they struggling so hard? On my 16, the low E tuner is not straight and points toward the top of the head stock. The ebony bridge is also crooked. The bridge posts were not drilled straight so they sit at and angle. Other than that it sounds breath taking and plays the same way. All guitar manufacturing from the last century had lots of issues like that. They were hand made by humans, specifically American humans. In that time we were and still are, a culture of" it's 5 o'clock somewhere" it's just the way we are. So, stuff inevitably comes off the line flawed. So, the notion that the problem is the fit and finish QC is the primary reason that they struggle is, in my opinion, flawed. I think real reason for their astonishing lack of success has more to do with their lack of innovation, artist product endorsements and lack of of a powerful outside sales force. Let's address these one at a time. When it comes to innovative guitar design, you have to give them an F-. Since this companies beginning, they have really done nothing but mimic the old designs of the previous tenant. To their credit, they really made them better in so much as offering things like solid carved tops on Gibson models that had laminated tops and offering tap tuning etc. But at the end of the day, they are just making Gibson's with a different head stock. This is of course has been a tried and true method for a start up , but at some point you have to get the attention of the market by offering new designs. When it comes to artist endorsement deals, who did they get? Kenny Burrell? Henry Johnson? Mimi Fox? Hey, they are all three great artist, but nobody knows who the are. Okay the had Roy Clark at one point, but it was a little late in his career to make any impact. In the meantime, the folks from Ibanez approached Pat Metheny, George  Benson, John Schofield, Joe Pass and several others. Ibanez came to those guys during the period that Heritage was getting started and the fact that at least one of those guys didn't have a deal with them is nuts. Especially Joe Pass and Barney Kessel. Kessel was playing an old Gibson with the logo painted over. What an opportunity that should have been. Instead, Ibanez design a Barney Kessel model. It's inexcusable that opportunities like that were missed. Okay, what about the hair band endorsements? they got some of those right? No. See issue number one, innovation. They simply failed to produce something those guys might of really liked. And finally, the lack of any aggressive outside sales staff. This last one is purely a guess as I have no inside knowledge of how the Heritage Guitar Company approached this. As a sales person myself, I just go by the results of what you see for sale in most music stores, and it is not The Heritage Guitars. The fact that Jay Wolfe is their largest dealer speaks volumes. Wolfe guitars, while somewhat well known(online), is a smallish little facility tucked away in an industrial park in Jupiter Florida. They offer really great service, expertise and repairs, but if you are in the business of selling production guitars, then you would be very wise indeed to get your instruments into a larger venue. For decades they were a cedia presence that nobody bothered with because of the lack of all three of the aforementioned, innovation, endorsement and sales. How difficult is it to simply look around you at what everyone else is doing and create your on innovative take on it? It can't be that difficult as every other company in the industry has done exactly that. PRS, just came out with the Silver Sky and a very interesting take on an Ibanez S body in the form of the specialty model, the  Chelo, which was made for Herman Li. They just up and stole that guy. Why, I am really not so sure, but it is a very cool guitar. Dear Heritage Guitars, I love what you do, but if you want to keep on doing it, you need to address the obvious and take corrective action NOW. if you don't that proud tradition of hand crafted fine guitars is going to end a final chapter. Chapter 11. 

Paragraphs are your friend. Just saying.